Monday, September 24, 2007

Weddingus Interruptus (More Green Arrow/Black Canary B*tching)

From a Newsarama interview with Judd Winick on the "Wedding Special":

: Speaking of fun, and speaking of it coming to a screeching halt – that last scene. That was something that a lot of people were picking up on even before the issue. Was Ollie’s death in the mix from the start?

JW: Yeah – but actually, it was supposed to be Black Canary, but we changed our minds. How do you like them apples?

Four things:

1) So Ollie is dead -- deeeeed. Again. It's official After all that s**t to bring him back.

2) Were gonna kill BC from the start, eh? What a wonderful way to plot an event. All this foo-foo nice wedding stuff just so you could kill her off. That would have gone over WELL! Yeah, take a character Gail Simone is known for writing and give credence to the ol' "Women in Refrigerators" meme she started.

3) Then again, "WIR" also referred to majorly f**ked up things female characters have had to go through. So under Black Canary, next to "sexually mutilated and made sterile," you can write: "was forced to kill her own husband just before coitus on their honeymoon bed because he was going to stab her."

4) Ollie is DEAD! Deeeeeeed! Read:

JW: In Green Arrow/Black Canary #1, the world has moved on, but Dinah has only moved forward one inch. She’s having, to say the least, a very hard time coming to terms with Ollie’s death…almost to the point that she’s not going to come to terms with Ollie’s death. She’s going to set her own terms in regards to how she’s dealing with Ollie’s death, despite the fact that everyone else is moving on.

Deeeeeeeeed!!!! Deader than a dead parrot! Deeeeeeeed!!!!!

And Newsarama readers react:

"So glad I quit subsidizing Winick."

"L-A-M-E. They already killed Ollie, why do it again?"

"This was awful. In fact, it was so bad, I had to throw it away because the comic was stinking up the house."

"I really don't like wedding issue when we don't actually get to see them get married."

"Only in the Didioverse would they actually marry a character. Then kill him off... in the same issue. If it wasn't so pathetically predictable, it'd be funny."

"Canary is a master - a MASTER - of the martial arts having survived training by Shiva and that crazy woman sensei that she took Sin from. She has the canary cry - and her only recourse to save herself is to Jamie Lee Curtis him in the neck with an arrow??"

"This is more Final Crisis editorial stink! Yes, Ollie is really dead and a lot of the other icons are going to start buying it until FINAL CRISIS. DC Comics are going to blow for the next year and 3 monthes until this Final Crisis crap is over. Notice how everybook is taking a turn towards the worst?. Especially the memberships of the team books? I always feel like I wasted my money on Winick books. 5 minute read. Adolescent plots and obnoxious plot twists that destroy the characters for the sake of shock value."

"Absolutely f#cking amazing. No explanation for why the supposed martial-arts expert Dinah didn't simply render Ollie unconscious with her free hand instead of taking an arrow and stabbing him through the neck. And no explanation for why she didn't even attempt to use her Canary Cry. It's so laughably bad you expect this to be a deliberate red herring, but you know what? I honestly don't think it is. Winick is just that bad of a writer."

"when will Didio learn death doesn't sell unless if it's Batman or Superman."

and the immortal...

"I miss Kevin Smith."

There were some nastier comments that I've left out. And, on the positive side, feeling was pretty unanimous that Amanda Connor's art was great.


  1. OS, he's probably not really dead.

    A) Winick is pretty well-known for not being 100% accurate in the things he tells the press.

    B) From the solicit to GA/BC #3:
    Black Canary and Green Arrow conclude their mission on Paradise Island and are stunned to find out what's really been going on there — and just who's been behind the kidnapping of their missing friend!

    Now, since the October & November solicits discuss them investigating the "shocking results of the Wedding of the Century," well, when I do the math it says Ollie is alive.

  2. I don't buy it. Of course they want us to think he's dead, they are feebly trying to maintain some suspense. But...

    Black Canary and Green Arrow conclude their mission on Paradise Island and are stunned to find out what’s really been going on there — and just who’s been behind the kidnapping of their missing friend!

    We've known for a while that the "Green Arrow" mentioned here is Connor Hawke, and I think we suspected, before the Wedding Special came out, that Ollie was the missing friend, and you know what... that's still what I think. That wans't really Ollie in the Special, at least not at the end (I haven't actually read it). I mean, I am a fan of Ollie, but I believe this not so much because it's important to me (it turns out it's not), but because I just doubt that they are gonna kill the guy twice, especially with all the Silver Age pseudo-restoration still in progress. It's possible, admittedly, but I just find it unlikely. Also, a Connor/Dinah book will sell even worse than an Ollie/Dinah book, right?

  3. Ok, snell beat me to it, but I think we were typing our comments at the same time! :P

  4. Ollie dead? Again? Shyeah, right. Next thing you'll be telling me that they killed off Steve Rogers.

  5. Would you care to try the red herring for tonight's meal?

  6. how about "deadish?"

  7. I'm split between two reactions:

    1) Winick is a creep. I don't care if it's a red herring or if it's a real death, Winick's entire shtick is shock value through torturing characters. But, he won't let you criticize him because he was friends with Pedro and even wrote a book about it. He's the worst kind of creep, a self-righteous one.

    2) Who cares? At this point, DC has become, "guess the shock death" in seemingly every story. Does this stuff even serve a point anymore? All the reactions just seem like everyone is just going through the motions. I can't see anything even close to H.E.A.T. occurring again!

  8. I'm in teh camp that prefers Green Arrow dead rather than married to Black Canary. In fact, I didn't buy the issue until I read the spoilers about it. The thing I really disliked about it? Amanda Conner is a humor cartoonist from the way it looked and that totally undercut any drama. This book looked like a Johnny DC title except that those books wouldn't have had that page of reactions to the wedding with so many characters unidentifiable because of the generic art.

  9. Did I mention that I've pretty much boycotted DC Comics, because I've pretty much boycotted DC Comics, so I thought I should mention that I've pretty much boycotted DC Comics?

    I was going to buy Salvation Run #1 at $0.75 and Tony Bedard's last Birds of Prey, but they were tipping my UPS shipping up by $2. I dropped both, but then the Nexus reprint I was going to buy still pushed me over, so BoP juuust managed to sneak in. So that's A DC Comic for that month (no trade or nothin'.)

  10. Speaking of Winick's tics, I once won $80 off his run on Exiles. When the book launched, I was friends with some guys who ran a comic shop, and we put together a store pool where you had to name guess which character would be the first to come out as gay and what issue it would happen in. I won largely because I knew it wouldn't happen in the first trade, and positioned my bet for what I assumed would be the end of the second one. And I picked wossername because she was utterly uninteresting, and in Winick world gay = personality.

    We neglected to set up another pool for how long it would be till something utterly horrible happened to the character, but we were young and foolish back then.

  11. Well, thankfully DC has plenty of books that are both good and have seemed to be able to avoid all of the more awful editorial hand downs. I love DC, but I've been skipping nearly every countdown tie in or special for the most part.

    So far they haven't screwed up:

    Burnett's Superman/Batman
    Blue Beetle
    Booster Gold
    Green Lantern

    They did bone the progress they were making on Supergirl though, it was actually starting to be great...

  12. I have to agree with Andrew - for as many books as they appear to be screwing up, They're putting out a good number of books I genuinely enjoy. Same for Marvel, really. I find both company's output to be of much higher value when I don't read the books I don't like.

  13. I'm just hoping DC can turn The Flash around, but the introduction of the "Kid Flashes" aren't keeping my hopes up.

  14. I remember reading once that a Golden Age editor once started a writer's meeting by asking "how long can grown men keep writing this @#$@?"*

    Well, after reading Countdown and the Wedding Special, I have to wonder the same thing about grown readers.

    It makes me want to say goodbye to DC (and some of Marvel's recent titles have made me feel the same way). There's a real lack of value for money with a lot of their comics.

    * An interlac word beginning with an sh sound.

  15. Baal said...

    I'm in teh camp that prefers Green Arrow dead rather than married to Black Canary.

    There's actually a "camp" that likes the death? I expect you'll only need to buy one of those tiny little two-person tents in order to have plenty of room...

  16. As far as I was concerned, Ollie died in that plane & that's it. I read the resurrection storyline, & while Mia has some potential, overall I didn't like it. So I say, move on with Connor.

  17. OOoooooh, right: I told you so!