Wednesday, June 20, 2007

Fan Feedback On
"The Lesbian Scene"
In "Annihilation: Conquest"

On the Newsarama forums...

"Wow, a lesbian scene with lame porno-esque dialogue. "I like it when you watch my back." Poor taste IMO."

"Does anyone think that DC and Marvel are really over doing the lesbian couple thing?
Moondragon & New Quasar (was Moondragon shown as a lesbian before this pairing?)
Thunder & Grace in Outsiders
Scandal & Knockout in Secret Six
I have nothing against lesbian couples (nor am I a tongue wagging lech over them), but it almost seems like they are using lesbian couples as a "safe" way to handle gay relationships in comics."

"How is it poor taste? The characters have been clearly established previously as lesbians, and the dialogue is only lame or porno-esque if you read that into it. Taken at face value, it reads as normal, couple conversation for superheroes. She might just as well be saying "I like it when you make scrambled eggs," or, "I like it when you take the day off with me." Except in their world, what they do is watch each others' back, because they're fighting hordes of angry, malevolent aliens."

"I agree with with your last line a lot about it being the "safe way." Like, you really don't see a lot gay male couples ( Young Avengers, and Ultimate X-men, and some others being an exception). I would like to see all varieties of couples and sexualities in adds texture and substance, makes people that much more interesting, and appealing to a bigger audience. I like how Chuck Austen handled Northstar and Icemans friendship, and Northstar and the nurse Annie (i think was her name) in Uncanny X-men a bunch of years ago, I really enjoyed those scenes., and thought they added a lot in the book."

"WHO complains about attractively drawn lesbians. ..seriously. thats like saying "i dont like oxygen, or pizza" or other such beautiful things."

A few notes:

"lame porno-esque dialogue" -- oh, come on. You can totally see Black Canary saying that to Green Arrow and vice-versa.

"they are using lesbian couples as a safe way to handle gay relationships in comics" -- well...yes. But you have to start somewhere.

"you really don't see a lot gay male couples"(in comics) -- this is true.

"WHO complains about attractively drawn lesbians. ..seriously. thats like saying "i dont like oxygen, or pizza" or other such beautiful things." -- oy, vey.

with thanks to David the G. who virtually puts posts like this together for me with space enough for me to give it my rant.


  1. that last comment is exactly why they do it... cause thats who the comics companies cater to...

    but the gays are a HUGE market for comics and we have expendable income, allen heinberg is a gay, thats why his stuff features prominent, well done gay characters...

    while all the mary jane statue loving, lesbian love scene fantasizing fanboys are too busy paying their rent on their parents' basement, we are making cold hard cash and spending it cause we dont have children assin up our basements and wallets!

  2. Yes, Peter David decided to establish Moondragon as lesbian in his Captain Marvel run.

  3. As a lesbian who deliberately purchases comics with lesbians, lesbian couples and lesbian scenes in them, I find all the negativity around lesbian content from otherwise pro-gay readers interesting. I wonder if people think that the content is inauthentic or not really lesbian because there's an assumption that real lesbians aren't beautiful (in other words, lesbians = ugly).

  4. there's nothing wrong with hot lesbians teresa, but the problem is when they use hot lesbians as a gimmick to attract the straight male, basically the same as the coors light commercials, "AND TWINS!"

  5. Anonymous5:06 PM

    I'm just curious, doesn't it bother you that one of the main reasons they put lesbian characters in comics is solely for the masturbatory fantasies of fanboys? As a woman, I find it incredibly demeaning that if I were gay my personal relationships were the wetdream of random men everywhere.

  6. " of the main reasons they put lesbian characters in comics is solely for the masturbatory fantasies of fanboys?"

    Yeah that describes Strangers in Paradise to a tee.

  7. Sammy,
    Yes, I've heard that many times--that it's just used to get men to buy. That is an assumption. I haven't heard the publishers express that intent, or ever heard and evidence that male readers buy comics for the lesbian content. But there are lesbians--in increasing numbers--who buy these comics for that content. I think that is more interesting and worthy of discussion.

  8. Salymander,
    No, I do not find it demeaning. For most of my life, I've had to rely on men's interest level in lesbian porn to see images of two women together--that was the only way to get that content for years and years. It is a commercial reality and a fact of lesbian life. And I'm pro-fantasy and pro-masturbation generally, whether its for boys or girls, so if guys dig it, no worries here.

  9. Regarding lesbian relationships existing in comics mainly to attract straight males to make more money, well, I think you have to look at it on a case by case basis. I don’t’ think that’s the case with Phyla and Moondragon. Have you seen any gratuitous sex scenes there? Nope. I do think that was the case in the original Gen-13 series with Rainmaker whom the writer would make naked on a whim. I certainly don’t think it was Gail Simone’s intention with Scandal and Knockout, although in execution, that turned out to have the appearance of exploitation. It seems like some here think that a lesbian relationship in a superhero comic is automatically gratuitous and I don’t think that’s the case or a fair assumption at all.