Monday, December 03, 2007
"Oh No, They're Sneaking Teh Gay Into My Comic!"
I think the post at this blog sums up every way you can say "I do not like teh gay" without actually admitting that you do not like gays.
What was the impetus of the post?
"The Young Avengers trade. What did it do, you ask? Well, I finally got around to reading it, and it was wonderful. It was full of Avengers, Avenger wanna be's, time travel and Kang acting particularly nasty. It was great. UNTIL the last two pages when the writer slips in the fact that two of the characters are dating each other! "
Which characters? Hulking & Wiccan, of course.
The poster immediately follows this up with:
"Why do I care?"
So there shouldn't have been a reference to Wiccan & Hulking's relationship because it's not something this reader cared about? Aren't there a lot of stuff in the comics we read that we don't care about? I skim through whole scads of cosmic mumbo-jumbo in "Death of the New Gods" because I don't care about it. Can't say it ruins the whole series for me.
"Let's add this to rumors of Nightwing being gay, a gay Batwoman, the new Question being gay… I'M SICK OF IT!"
Why is he sick of it? Because he does not like teh gays? Apparently not, because a paragraph later he says:
"If you want to add a gay character, fine!"
Well that's just awesome. But there is a proviso:
"Add a gay character, but start with him as gay."
This line refers to "retcons" of older characters as gay. But I think Heinberg pretty much conceived Hulkling & Wiccan as gay from the start. So what is the problem?
"...why is it so important to let us know the sexuality of a character right away? Straight characters are not immediately introduced as straight, but gay characters are almost immediate "outed" as gay."
Well, when a character like Spider-Man is showed having a romantic relationship with MJ, that's sort of tipping us off as to his probable sexual preference. Unless, of course, Peter Parker is teh bisexual.
"Since I'm ranting anyway, when did it become a requirement that every superhero team have a gay character?"
Here we go....
"Why is it in my face??????"
Oh, because there's sooooo many gay characters in mainstream comics. It's overwhelming.
"...I really think it's all Warren Ellis's fault."
(grabs popcorn, sits back in couch)
"If Stormwatch/Authority hadn't been such a success then I don't think this would have happened."
"I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home."
Of course not.
"I don't care if you like men or women or sheep or even horses."
Ah, the old "conflating-homosexuality-with-bestiality" gambit. Clever.
"Live whatever alternative lifestyle you like but don't force it upon me."
How does a lesbian Batwoman = putting a gun to this reader's head?
"Seriously, I feel that the whole gay culture has been thrust upon me in the last five years. And, thanks to all of this, not only do I get to have the birds and bees talk I get to incorporate the sometimes bees like bees instead of birds talk."
So now we are at teh "gay bees" stage of the conversation.
"You want to know why I don't read Winnick?"
Because he didn't remember that Black Canary could have harmlessly disabled not-Ollie with a sonic scream?
"Seriously, every series he has touched turns up another gay or aids related character."
Wait, Winick gives AIDS to comic books he touches? What?
"I got it JW. It was a big deal and I am really sorry that you lost a friend, that sucks, but leave me out of your grieving process."
"Same goes for Devin Greyson."
Well, who here didn't see that coming?
"You want to talk diversity? WHO CARES?"
Well, some people care, actually.
"All I'm saying is enough is enough and let's get back to superheroes beating up supervillians and leave all the other stuff at home."
Okay, so let's take all the romantic aspects -- girlfriends and boyfriends, dating, etc. -- out of mainstream comics. Let's just have Thor bashing in Hulk's head with his Mjolnir hammer over and over again.
Added bonus: some gems from the comments section:
"Writers like Greg Rucka not only want greater diversity in comics, but do so at the expense of white, hetero males. Rucka had single-handedly eliminated nearly every white male in Gotham during his tenure on the bat-books."
(after explaining he's against gay marriage):
"Ironically, I really like a lot of music performed by gay artists: The Village People, Queen, Elton John, the Indigo Girls, the Smiths and Morrisey. I tend to steer clear from overt “gay” only themed songs (sometimes you can’t listen too closely)..."
So they're good enough to make the music you like but not good enough to get married to the people they love? Why do I get a picture in my head of Archie Bunker telling Sammy Davis Jr. that he's a good performer?
And the best:
"I for one am so friggin' sick of heterosexual characters being shoved into my comics that I could scream. I mean, why does it MATTER that Spider-man and Mary Jane are a couple? I don't want to know that! Why do people who choose to live the heterosexual alternative lifestyle feel the need to force that on me?!
I blame Superman and Lois Lane for all of this."
Posted by Verge at 11:11 AM
Labels: homosexuality in comics
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Got anymore popcorn, Val? ^_~ReplyDelete
Nothing like a really faulty argument on a blog to really get one to snicker and roll their eyes. Now, there is an argument to be made for adding "diversity" just for the sake of diversity instead of caring about what characters a person wants to work with, but saying that he's being forced to see gay everywhere is just stupid. ^_~ Perhaps he's living in denial?
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
since i'm from boston, picture this said in a thick boston accent. it's funnier that way.ReplyDelete
"I'M SICKA ALL THESE FRUITS QUEERIN' UP MY COMICS!! It's not like i gots a problem or sumthin, BUT IF SUPAMAN AIN'T NO NANCY-BOY, THEN I DON'T WANT NO FAHKING HEROES THAT MAKE ME QUESTION MY OWN SEXUAL IDENTITY!!
...plus I heard dat Sue Dibny chick was a skank and totally got what what coming to her. AM I RIGHT, FELLAS?? YEAH D00D! TEH BEERZ!!"
The post was pretty bad, but you made it seem even worse with the paraphrasing.ReplyDelete
I imagine this guy doesn't watch Project Runway :)
Who knew teh gays were waging war on comics!ReplyDelete
Actually, if I were teh gay, I'd be laughing my ass off right now. To inspire such fear of sexuality in a comic reader is truly an awesome power that I feel should be wielded to the fullest! Methinks teh original poster doth protest way too much.
I had a hard time taking that poster seriously. So...I didn't. Uh, whatever.ReplyDelete
PS? The rumor about Batwoman & The Question? TOTALLY CONFIRMED!!!!!
Call me dense, but what is 'teh gays?' Anyone offer me a clue?ReplyDelete
"Call me dense, but what is 'teh gays?' Anyone offer me a clue?"ReplyDelete
Oh, that's just me using current Internet lingo to sound far cooler and younger than I really am.
No need for that, Val! You're cool and hip to our generation already, yo!ReplyDelete
teh gayz are us big ol mo's as a collective whole.ReplyDelete
and it's funny he brought up young avengers because that was by far the BEST representation of gay characters in comics in forever, and Heinberg won the GLAAD award because of it.
Heaven forbid we acknowledge that gay people exist, even in fictional environments, because that would be "THROWING IT IN YOUR FACE," right?
I love how homophobes hide behind, "I'm ok with whatever you do at home, I just don't want to know"
It's the equivalent of someone saying, "I don't care that we have blacks in our neighborhood, I just don't want them using my water fountain."
oh my god, i just found my FAVORITE QUOTE from the comments. this absolutely makes my LIFE.ReplyDelete
"I recently had the “birds and the bees” talk with my 9-year-old son... He wasn’t grossed out about any of it, which was good. However, I was quite surprised when he asked me how gay people had sex. He wasn’t looking for a Daddy loves Daddy answer. So, I told him…the place where “poopie” comes out. He thought that was gross. “Nuff said”."
He obviously has a well-adjusted, moral centered child. I think that dude should show his kid porn for better illustration. Or better yet, "hey little Timmy, why don't you sit in the corner while me and your mom go at it?"
I'm a heterosexual male who has never been known to turn down sex, but I'm pretty sure at 9, I wouldn't be going "oh man, THIS IS AWESOME!!!" at the mechanics of ANY sex, gay or straight. Seriously, to a 9-year-old, it's all pretty gross. Heck, I'm 22 and it still kinda grosses me out.
I submit that comics fans, on balance, are socially reactionary.ReplyDelete
There. I said it.
It's one of the reasons I've so very, very few non-Internet comics friends.
Hm. Well, I can certainly see and agree with the post from a CONCEPTUAL standpoint (a little). He doesn't want gay characters to be gay and nothing else (of course, I'm purposely forgetting the portions in which he basically says he just doesn't want gays in his comics). I would tend to agree. A character who is developed no further than a defining trait (sexuality, skin color) is hardly a character at all. I would disagree with his assessment that Hulkling and Wiccan fall into the category of "gay and gay only," but then, I'm not as blatantly homophobic as he appears to be. However, I do see some of that in Batwoman, who basically only showed up for the media blitz and has been used for little if anything since the conclusion of 52.ReplyDelete
I just love that he's worried about gays "in his face" and "thrusting it upon him."ReplyDelete
You know, I think there is a hidden message here. Oh yes, there is. Let's see, Hulkling and Wiccan are introduced as gay characters, then, a few years later, what happens? That's right. Spider-Man's marriage literally falls apart!ReplyDelete
Fictional gays are destroying the institution of fictional marriage!
O.S. I have reading your Blog since July or so (and then I started with your archives), but now it is official. You are wonderful!ReplyDelete
And please, Does he think that all the soup is not "Avengers Material". The Scarlet witch was married with a friggin´android!
I don't like Rucka turning Montoya into the Question, but that has nothing to do with her being gay or latina or whatever. I don't like it because I really liked the Vic Sage Question (who was experiencing a new surge of popularity due to the JLU cartoon) and it felt like he was sacrified just to make Montoya, a Rucka "pet-character" who lost the book she starred in a bit ago, relevant again.ReplyDelete
All that said, though, anyone who thinks Rucka or Heinberg are using their books as soapboxes for "the gay agenda" is just completely delusional. Winnick...well, I wouldn't say subtlety is his strongest suit at times, but he handled the gay teen in Green Lantern very well and only really went soapboxxy with Green Arrow, who has really been a soapboxxy character since the O'Neill/Adams days. He's not a favorite writer of mine, that that has more to do with what I deem as his overall lack of talent than the incorporation of his viewpoints into his work.
"Oh, that's just me using current Internet lingo to sound far cooler and younger than I really am."ReplyDelete
Ah. So, uh...that mean I fail? Thats ok, you call it getting old, I call it getting one step closer to acceptably crapping my pants in public. Now THAT is freedom.
Once again, your play-by-play makes an otherwise unbearable bit of nonsense entertaining.ReplyDelete
Val, great job on that guy's post. He's a jackass.ReplyDelete
As for "teh gay," I first noticed it on Atrios' blog. He's early to mid-30s, which I think is more or less where you're at.
To be pedantic, the use of "teh," a deliberate misspelling for "the," is to suggest how contemptibly stupid an opponent's views are. It's the keyboard equivalent of throwing in a "duh" when mimicking someone in a spoken argument. I think Atrios uses it for a few other topics, but "teh gay" is the most common.
Apparently the anti-gay guy also wants to get rid of Bruce Wayne. I mean, fuck, stupid all over ...ReplyDelete
Of course maybe it's just the name.
It's All Warren Ellis's Fault just put this one a new level of fail-fun for me...ReplyDelete
My two favorite bits (I'm a bit late to the pile-on party (but not in a gay way, of course)):ReplyDelete
"I don't care if you like men or women or sheep or even horses."
I love how liking men, women, and sheep are all grammatically conflated in this sentence, but it's horses that go over the line ("even horses").
"...I get to incorporate the sometimes bees like bees instead of birds talk."
So heterosex is equivalent to bird-on-bee sex? And homosex is equivalent to bee-on-bee sex (which is the way God intended bees to have sex)?
I pity this guy's nine-year-old.
Those were the best comments to his quotes evar xD
Why do I get the impression that his idea of "shoved down my throat" means "not being forced into the closet". :\
He seems like the type of person who'd go down to the Village and walk around being disgusted at everybody he's staring at and thinking "WHY DO PPL HAVE TO SHOVE IT DOWN MY THROAT!?"
Not the Gay Bees!ReplyDelete
my boyfriend just tipped me off to your blog, and i realize this is an old entry but i had to say "thank you" for keeping me thoroughly entertained at work. your commentary was hilarious!ReplyDelete
Actually, if I were teh gay, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.ReplyDelete
Well, this teh gay would laugh. Might not be quite funny next November when the OP staggers off to do his duty as a citizen and helps put Mitt Romney (who's as confused about gay rights as he is on everything else) in the White House, and puts a few more people in state and federal legislatures who have nothing against teh gays either. They just don't think sodomites should have any civil rights whatsoever.
Mitt Romney (who's as confused about gay rights as he is on everything else)ReplyDelete
I don't think he's at all confused on gay rights. He did everything he could as governor to make sure we couldn't get married. I think that makes his stance on gay rights really clear.
Thanks for a fabulous dissection of a ranting homophobic doofus, Val.
Ah, thanks for the claficiation, Jude - you want to make sense of an internally incoherent retcon, ask a comic book fan!ReplyDelete
So, let's see. It's fine to have gay character in a book, whatever. Just dont:ReplyDelete
1) have a previously straight character become gay
2) introduce a character as gay because I don't want to hear about it
3) ever mention that they are gay
So I guess this just leaves the Larry Craig kind of gay. I'm not gay, I've just had six or seven accidents or maybe more.