Friday, November 02, 2007

I Plead The Fifth...

...Fifth World, that is!

However, rumor has it that Grant Morrison was planning to do this all the time. Rumor also has it that the plan is to have the main DCU characters replace the New Gods. (all rumors provided by that reputable source Scans Daily)

Now, if the DCU replaces the New Gods, what happens to the DCU?

Which goes back to the "rebooting" theory. I swear by this theory.

Now, I know such and such people in the industry and I hear stuff (especially around 11 PM at convention parties). But I have no inside bead on this. I am just championing this theory based solely on what I perceive are the larger media needs for these properties & as well as what would best work financially.

What if you move all the grown-up sidekicks up a notch and have them become the main DCU? And then you move all the main DCU up a notch and make them "Fifth Worlders?"

It drives my BF crazy when I get on a kick regarding this's a great way to liven up a night of Mexican food and "Smallville."


  1. The unanswered question of the 4th World: if the New Gods are gods, then what is their ethos?

  2. Hey, Jack very clearly said Orion was the Dog of War! Totally different than God.

    Also, Val, your pitch is interesting but kind of confusing! Elaborate please.

  3. Which means he is the God of Raw for dyslexics.

  4. "What if you move all the grown-up sidekicks up a notch and have them become the main DCU? And then you move all the main DCU up a notch and make them "Fifth Worlders?"

    Which is partially what has had me so excited about the Countdown and the coming Final Crisis. It is very apparent and has been for quite some time, that the rules are being changed in a way that recalls the coming of the Silver Age. Too cool, this has Morrison all over it! Counting down...

  5. Should be interesting, but if they went through the trouble to make 52 earths in the DCU, I don't think the crisis will be such a huge shift.

    Maybe the fifth world is a new God-filled universe of characters made by Grant? That would be sweet.

  6. so ur saying

    Hal Jordan would be a new god, and Kyle Rainer would take over Green Lantern?

    And Nightwing would be Batman and Batman would be a new god?

    What about Superman? Superboy is dead, and Supergirl doesn't have a penis.


  7. Maybe there will be some kind of compromise where the "old guard" DC heroes will transcend to the Fifth World, the younger generation takes over as the protectors of Earth, but not necessarily taking over their costume identities (Dick stays Nightwing and no one becomes Batman). At the same time, DC starts a reboot line for Supes, Bats, WW, and others (dare I use the word ultimate), there by keeping Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, and the other "legendary" origin stories in play to satisfy mass-marketing and the general public. Just an idea.

  8. Or...

    Larger-than-life classic versions of the JLA-level heroes become the New Gods on one of the 52 parallel Earths, maybe Earth-5, kind of a meta version of what the Golden Age parallel Earth used to mean...

    While the current flaws-and-warts-to-keep-them-interesting New Earth "Marvelized DC" superheroes as we know of as the main continuity... remain the main continuity but occasionally interact with the Fifth World New Gods.

    The "Ultimate Golden Age" Earth, y'know.

    Kind of how "our" Superman will interact with the Kingdom Come Superman in upcoming JSA issues and so on.

    That'd be my guess. It's kind of a "pleases everybody" kinda solution.

  9. Larger-than-life classic versions of the JLA-level heroes become the New Gods on one of the 52 parallel Earths, maybe Earth-5, kind of a meta version of what the Golden Age parallel Earth used to mean...

    You know, that's close to my theory. I think we're getting the Heroes And Villains as a sort of New Pantheon. This is Grant we're talking about. He wants to deify these guys. He wants it BAD. ;)

    And then, hopefully, we do indeed reboot! And our newly deified Earth 1/New Earth chars can watch the Newest! Improved! Earth! take shape...

  10. I haven't read a DC comic in some time, and all this is making my head hurt.

  11. I know I know! They can add this "Fifth World" label for a while until it becomes too cumbersome from both a marketing and creative standpoint and then go back to the status quo and pretend it never happened!

    I seriously don't think they'll do anything to mess with the core brands of Superman and Batman and the others, at least not anything too drastic (unless they do split off into a "reboot" type thing... which I hope would be along the lines of "All Star Superman" but NOT "All Star Batman and Robin") in the longterm.

    I feel this is just adding yet another layer of uneccessary complication to the point where no one's really going to want to read all this stuff because they'll spend half the stories explaining all the changes.

    Basically, in some way, shape or fashion there has to be a Superman, a Batman, a Wonder Woman, a Flash, a Green Lantern and an Aquaman if for nothing else than to protect the trademarks and help with the marketing push for the movie adaptations.

  12. On the other hand, I could get behind this in a big way if it means getting back to basics on the core characters and dumping all the excess baggage and just telling sharp, clean stories.

    Again, with "All Star Superman" as the model. Yeah, I like "All Star Superman." A LOT.

  13. I still think that these guys are all way too much of continuity freaks to ever ditch it all and start over. They've spent the last decade(ish) undoing 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' so they can make references to old Legion comics, so I can't really see them wiping out the entire DC Universe and starting over.

    Even if it is their plan, I don't see them as having the discipline to stick to it. Someone like Brad Meltzer will come along wanting to do a love letter to their childhood comics, or Jeph Loeb will want to stick Luthor back in the big purple-and-green battlesuit, and it's back to pre-Crisis-y goodness for us!

    These things are like rubber bands. The further you pull, the faster they snap back into shape. (Unless you break them.)

  14. I still say that if they want to reboot the DCU, they don't have to go through all this metafictional hooey. They just have to say, "old continuity ends today, new continuity starts tomorrow" and get on with it.

  15. Granted, yes.

    There will always be writers who will come along and try to shoehorn back in the lamest and the silliest and the most generic ideas back into comics.

    This is just a fact of cycles.

    Someone will think that the idea of purple-polka-dotted kryptonite can be redeemed in an edgy way.

    Or bringing back the Detroit League fifth-stringers.

    Or... the jaw dropping lameness of the whole Legion of Superheroes idea.

    It's just gonna happen, like the tides.


    If Grant Morrison is the mind behind the Fifth World, I'd also like to point out that...

    The Aztec and Mayan Calendars refer to the time that will come after the 2012 Winter Equinox as The Fifth World.

    When we're all supposedly supposed to choose whether to perish with this vibration or rise up to the more spiritual next-reality.

    If Morrison's on board, I'm sure he's thinking about that little parallel as well.

    Especially when there's a comet that's supposed to come to herald in the Fifth World in those legends and... like...

    I've noticed that they're saying now that it wasn't Halley's Comet that kicked off Prime's powers but rather something else that just looked like it...

    And I go hmmmmm.

    Sorry. Just bringing my "religion minor in college" thoughts to the table, knowing that a Grant Morrison's gonna have those ideas spinning too.

  16. see, i LOVE this theory!

    Bruce Wayne gone and Dick Grayson replacing Bruce Wayne

    Diana gone and Donna Troy finally becoming Wonder Woman for good as she deserves

    Kal-El gone and... oh wait... there's no superboy in waiting. what happens here? Superwoman? Powerwoman? Superman prime? LOL

  17. If Nightwing takes over from Bruce then Batman really will be a Dick.

  18. I'd figured this all out in July. It's all there if you start reading into it.
    I'm surprised that you didn't figure this out sooner.