According to LITG, the original plan of turning all the main DCU icons into "Fifth World" characters has been abandoned for something a bit less drastic:
"...a Bat-storyline by Grant Morrison. So look for Bruce Wayne New God to go head-to-head with Darkseid in "Final Crisis."
You know, I really have to wonder if these sorts of spoilers are purposely "leaked" to test the waters with the fans. I'm not saying that Rich Johnson is knowingly running rumors that have been leaked on purpose, because I don't believe that's the case. But if you're the head of a major comic book publishing outfit and are planning massive changes to your characters...wouldn't it make sense to do a little "research?" Isn't it better to find out before you turn half your cast into pseudo-Gods in Kirby headdresses whether or not the fans will balk?
Honestly, I don't think permanently removing Bruce Wayne as Batman will work with the fans. This is not to say that I think DC won't do it. I'm just saying I think it won't "stick" -- unless very maybe you make Dick Grayson Batman. Only a character with that level of "legacy" could really take over.
Personally, I think if they made Jason Todd Batman, fans would be setting their comics on fire and filming it for YouTube. And Stephen Colbert would weep.
I think the trouble is that the only character that I think would reasonably WANT to take over is Jason Todd.
ReplyDeleteNightwing has his own identity going on, and Robin has explicitly stated that he doesn't WANT to be Batman, EVER. I suppose any writer could make it work, but Nightwing is too much of his own character to simply step into the role of another one.
Not that I want to see Jason Todd as Batman, either. I'd rather just have Bruce Wayne.
-M
I think most people don't want any other Batman, in large part b/c it would contradict Kingdom Come and Batman Beyond. Yes, KC is now Earth-22 or whatever, and BB and the rest of the DCAU is still non-canon, but I think a large majority of fans *want* all that to be canon. With KC Superman showing up in JSA, I think it shows that DC recognizes what fans want...as well as what a money-maker KC will always be.
ReplyDeleteAs for Jason Todd...he only fits as Batman if they start making the whole DCU even more violent than it was before. So if they do that, DC loses me and others. If Jason Todd is your Batman and it fits the U...I don't really care to read about that U.
Dick Grayson could be Batman, then JT as Nightwing, and Tim as Robin.
ReplyDeleteThat would make sense to me. Although I am not totally for this, if Dick became Batman, I would actually read a Batman title.
My pitch was making Tim Drake the Batman Beyondy Batman...I could see legs. ALSO I DEMAND KIRBY HATS FOR ALL.
ReplyDeleteBecause really, Kirby hats make everything pretty. :)
ReplyDeleteI could see Jason going through some soul-searchy stuff during Countdown and taking on the Batman legacy to find redemption. Maybe Bruce dies saving his life, or something.
I dunno. There's a way to make Jason work, but I don't see the current crop (except MAYBE Morrison) pulling that off.
JASON GO BACK IN THE BOX!!!!
ReplyDeleteunless jason todd stays the red hood & gets a new apprentice...RED X! who turns out to be steph.
Stunts like these are why it's much healthier for my inner fanboy (inner? I hear the cry) to pretend that everything published since 1986 is an Elseworlds/What If type deal.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, none of this ever sticks. The momentum of merchandising is just too great.
This just seems to be another example of (Warning: Controversial statement coming up!) Morrison not really understanding the "sandbox" nature of a shared universe, and editors not being willing to stand up to him.
ReplyDeleteThis is an obvious mistake: Bruce Wayne as Batman and Clark Kent as Superman are the two sacred cows of comics, the only two icons so absolutely known to the public at large in every detail that you simply cannot make any significant changes to their status quo for any length of time. They are modern legend. Everywhere in the world, people know that Batman is millionaire playboy Bruce Wayne. Trying to change this is just going to necessitate a stupid, ugly, awkward retcon somewhere down the line.
So what does Morrison do? He does it anyway, knowing that he'll get the credit for the brilliant, groundbreaking story that changes everything, and some poor schmuck five years from now will get the blame for the stupid retcon. It is in no small part like the way the death of Magneto was handled. With an X-Men movie that was a smash hit and a sequel on the way, and Chris Claremont already making plans to use Magneto in Excalibur, everyone at Marvel knew that Magneto couldn't be killed off. But Morrison did it anyway, and Claremont got the blame for the retcon.
Obviously, Morrison is a brilliant writer, and I love his work. But you can only see this pattern so many times (Doom Patrol, Animal Man) without coming to the conclusion that Morrison does not mind leaving other writers in a very awkward position if it means he gets to tell the story he wants to tell. Working in a shared universe simply does not appear to be part of his skillset.
"That being said, none of this ever sticks. The momentum of merchandising is just too great."
ReplyDeleteYep. Just like Hal Jordan, Bruce Wayne will be back.
I think Bruce Wayne will be back is a given even more than Hal Jordan as Green Lantern. Even someone who doesn't know jack about comics knows Bruce Wayne... there was recently a fairly successful moving picture show about him and there will shortly be another.
ReplyDeleteWhereas the average Joe or Jane on the street doesn't know Hal Jordan from Michael Jordan. They know Green Lantern, but that's just a guy in a green mask with a... lantern? A spaceship?
The same with Clark Kent.
Changing either of those guys for any period of time is like changing Bugs Bunny. Or Babe Ruth.
I think for comics fans, it's something to get excited about. But jeez... even my mom knows Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent. Put Jason Todd or Dick Grayson (WHO?) in Batman's togs and 10 years from now most people will still say "Oh yeah, Bruce Wayne is Batman." It's bigger than any writer or shortterm marketing plan.
And they already switched out Batman one time. Big splash in comics circles... never happened to the world at large. Bruce Wayne has always been Batman, will always be Batman. Same with Clark and Superman. Eventually, they'll do a big "Return of the Heroes" even and undo whatever damage has been done to the core brand and in the end, it'll be as if it never happened. And to non-fans, or the people who are into these heroes solely based on their movies (this audience probably outnumbers the comics-buyers by a massively healthy margin), it WILL have never happened.
That said, bring on the Kirby hats!
ReplyDeleteYou know what got me more than anything else about the link that was posted? I followed it, read a little further down, and was positively heartbroken when I discovered Didio had murdered Snoopy! *sobs*
ReplyDelete"a few weeks ago, saw DC's Executive Editor Dan Didio write a strip featuring the adult versions of Charlie Brown and Linus summoning a pumpkin demon from hell, and sacrificing Snoopy in the process."
I remember reading the offending issue, but I didn't actually pick up that it was Snoopy that had been killed... and I must have (no doubt?) missed all the protests on the web? Surely I'm not the only one who got upset by this?
I never really took much heed with the call "Dan Didio Must Die!" but for killing Snoopy? I now join the rebellion.
*falls in sobbing heap for lost Snoopy*
I'm not sure that Bruce Wayne with the Power Cosmic going toe-to-toe with Darkseid really interests me.
ReplyDeleteA cosmically unaware Bats meticulously hunting the Big D down with a series of plausible schemes and traps, wearing away at him slowly before stepping out for the coup-de-grace... awesome.
Like, y'know, Dark Knight Returns, but without the Mecha Suit and (I hope) less machismo.
The other thing I noticed about the LITG piece is that it read like DC editorial did an about face entirely because Val guessed their plans. Hey, Val! Tell us they're never gonna bring back Steph/that Judd Winick will write GA/BC forever! ^_^
PS: Kirbyhats? Go read Godland. Praise Iboga!
Didn't the "Titans of Tomorrow" Cassie say she took over as Wonder Woman after Diana died in "the Crisis"?
ReplyDeleteJist sayin' since no one's talking about the other main cast... if they all transcended it wouldn't just be Batman being replaced. However blatantly temporary.
Not sure about Donna in the Wonder-title case, but she did just have it...
As far as Superman... I guess bringing back Kon-El would be more possible if he is Superman rather than Superboy according to the whole legal ownership thingy, right? Otherwise I don't think Supergirl's up to replace him, maybe Power Girl or this new version of Kristin Wells/Superwoman?
Hal is already surrounded by replacements.
Would New God Flash be Wally or Barry? If it were Barry there wouldn't even need to be a change here...
It's possible I've droned enough on this hypothetical plotline...
It's ridiculous to assume that a changeover of the Big Three would have been permanent, despite the best attempts.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I think it would have made a fascinating two or three years of reading... One Year Later done right... until Final Crisis 2 came along and fixed everything.
Would that really have been so bad?
i've been a Bat-fan my whole life an you know as much as i'd mourn the idea of loosing the Bat we all know that he can't last forever...and although we don't all like this multiverse mayhem, lets face it somehow we'd love to see the DK return and KC and if Bats is going to go to the big cave in the sky(DK2)...at least he goes out with a little dignity.
ReplyDeleteBut what if Jean Paul came back?, you know if you read Azrael 100 and other bat books there are many allusions suggesting hes still alive. though some didn't like it I thought he was a good Batman, opposite yes..but he took out Bane no problem..its like Marvel should have had Punisher as the new Capt Amer..anyway with JPV a team of Dark Knights could come about to rival the GL Corps..which would lead to DK....and even if Bruce temporarily goes off his rocker, plenty of time to rebuild and make a come back..but this time with his own group(not the wacky outsiders-lame) how about the new Dark Knights, GA, NW,Rbn,BG,BOP,catwoman and a pulled out of time Dr. Midnite and G-A GL and what about adding GH + Kato..
instead of the woosey JLA these guys could rely on their wits and strengths..kick butt and take names anyway just a thought...what do you guys think???
Hmmm.....I dunno I think this is just gonna be like a more operatic Knightfall...Grayson taking over the mantle and a couple of weeks/months/years later Bruce pops back into the frame after recovering out in the wilderness after his battle with Doctor Hurt/(ahem)Thomas Wayne - who should be too old to even dare try a game of fisticuffs with anyone let alone old Bats if he is still alive which would be stupid because the worlds greatest detective should have the deductive skills to track down his own father(RIGHT???)!! Anyway he returns and says to everybody "Yeah....Thogal got me through it..and I'm fine now...oh and Grayson you can get out of the Batsuit now coz there's a load of DC comics fans waiting for us to go back to the way things are supposed to be!!!" Et voila! One atrocious Grant Morrison story succsessfully cured - everything normal again!! :) :D :P x)
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