Wednesday, September 24, 2008

DC Fan Defends The Company

"Die in a fire, Femenazi (sic)"

--"Earth M", in a comment to my post complaining about violence to women in Teen Titans.

Luckily for Earth M, DC Comics provides him with a plethora of such images for him to fantasize about.

Didio, McKeever, et al: here is the audience you are playing to. Good work. A least they're loyal.


  1. Earth M, I hope your entire knuckle-dragging universe is destroyed in Final Crisis.

  2. "Femenazi" is a stupid, stupid term in many ways and contexts.

    First, it's offensive to women who point out that, yeah, a lot of fucked up shit tends to happen towards women.

    Second, it downplays the horrific deeds of the nazis--as though maybe taking a hard stance against sexism and discrimination is comparable to, oh, say, the extermination of an entire nation of people. Yes, ethnic cleansing and bra-burning--same page.

    Third, even if I WERE to ever use such a term in any way, I think you're probably the last person to whom I'd apply it.

    What an appleheaded ninny.

    I heard someone call someone else an applehead the other day. It delighted me.

  3. I am reminded of the old Stabur video interview with Chris Claremont where he describes a collaborative project with some unnamed artist who suggested rather seriously "why don't we cut X's arm off in this scene" (X being an unamed character).

    Claremont's response was "it's an interesting idea, but why?"

    He asked if the idea sprung from a desire to explore just what effect such an event would have not only on the character, but on his friends, family, et al, or if it was just a "kewl" moment.

    Claremont's belief was that such an idea was worth discussing if for the first reason, even though it would totally throw off the book's plot line for months to come, not to mention possible effects on other books. If just a "kewl" moment, he didn't feel it was anything more than gratuitous and not worth doing.

    Sage words. And it seems like DC's brain trust has neglected to learn that lesson. Pity that.

    Personally I have no particular issue with violence being done to a character, female or otherwise, in a book IF it has some relevant point to the plot. Too many writers and editors seem to be going for simple shock value these days though.

  4. as of late i've noticed a bit more venom in your posts and i really have to say something. i know it will most likely be met with a massive shitstorm no matter what i say. this is long but hang in there.

    to comment on this..the guys an asshole, the world is filled with people like that ..hell even marvel has fans like that who attack like idiots over a valid point. while DC has some major issues and really a shitty record. i see the types of fans who do shit like this are slightly ignored. sure DC has lots of shit to own up to and i deffinitely don't want to defend everything. this guy is just a guy trying to get under your skin and its worked. you're kind of giving him too much of your time. i'm not saying ignore it completely but to call such attention to a guy who does that is only going to end in that guy feeling like he got one over on you. i know this very well. this past christmas i had a guy tell me to 'do everyone a favor and kill yourself' after i posted about being kinda bummed on christmas and not having anything to do. i get death threats every fucking week for everything you can think of. hell when shit blew up for a week on here with Beau Smith i got a torrent of angry emails and a few had to go to the cops just by the sheer vile nature of it. this type of thing really can't be pegged on DC fans..just assholes trying to get you riled up. as for DCs part..they really need to make real steps to mend the situation. their crimes against you and many other women real or imaginary should be answered for and in that pursuit i fully support you. but when a female character is hurt in some fashion i see it plastered here and it just kind of looks a bit much. an out of context injured woman can be taken in so many ways. but do people know the story? some do. hell it might be a valid non issue. people in comics are injured all the time. hell batman is a fucking methhead now. not everything is exploitation. so while i support you in the efforts to expose the DC bullshit i can't be on board with every image posted and the angry rants contained with it. women in refigerators is one thing but someone in a hospital bed with bandages is really sometimes a bit reaching. should there be a better treatment of female characters? absolutely..but when a writer wants to add a touch of realism to a book not everyone with superpowers is going to come out unhurt every time. if they skipped the convelescence part you lose part of the drama..they do this to guys too. in the past 3 years they've had batman..a flagship character break many bones get messed up bad..beaten nearly to death shot up with large quantities of drugs and then set forth to talk crazy to bat-mite and some goddamn gargoyles. i know its different standards with men and women but there really shouldn't be a standard. to me a way to really make things better in comics is to portray people outside of stanard gender roles. they do this fairly well with the new question. she's a lesbian and sometimes they play it up a bit..but not really. she's a strong character who's overcome herissues. the batwoman element was handled very poorly. but thats really the difference of a marketting team and the quality of the writing than anything. i can't fault DC for trying anything to get the press marvel does..but they go about it wrong. the way they handle alot of shit is wrong and people should stand up and tell them to own up and do better. as long as people keep buying the things people scream about the more its going to happen. by pointing it out with the real heavy violations its fine and for the greater good..for the small stuff like a woman in a hospital out of context it seems a bit reaching.

    as for the minx line. really any time someone and this goes for marvel and many other media companies try to force something out there in such a way it immediately maligns the work. if you look at manga..girls read it and enjoy it..girls read nightwing..girls read what they like and they find it organicly. much like us guys. sure marketting might go 'this is for the boys' but things are enjoyable to anyone. when you go 'this is a line for teenage girls who like manga' that immediately gets a stink of being talked down to or being patronized to some extent. that kind of marketting never works. no matter what anyone does, if you make the big statement of 'this is for group a' group A is going to turn around and tell you to go fuck yourself and go pick up death note because thats the shit. people by nature don't like to be forced into an idea. so on alot of your points i agree with you. as a total condemnation of the company i think its unfair. sure they fucked with you bad..thats a reason to fight..sure there are issues with how women are treated in their media..but to totally tear them apart on everything they do seems a bit much. in my opinion i think its better to pick the battles. the shit treatment you got there..fight it..make them hurt..give them hell. but the things in the books..the only way thats changing if if some editors lose their jobs and certain higher ups leave..and quality people and actual good writers step in. i understand being angry but firing missles at everything solves nothing. i hear alot of dumb shit day to day and the latest floating in the ether is now that you're doing work for marvel you've become kind of a shill bashing the competition a bit more. i don't really agree with that, but i can see the casual person seeing that..then seeing this and go 'oh its some marvel shill' it does no one any good to attack every little thing. some of it..absolutely attack..some of it go to war over..but like the wonderdog thing? the majority that read that book are people my age with dreadful social lives who remember how shitty wendy and marvin were and wonderdog was a shitty scooby doo swipe..they eat that shit up. was it good for kids? absolutely not. but kids aren't really reading that book or any comic. the market forgot kids long ago. which is sad..and once again bad labeling and forced marketting is to blame..marvel adventures or the jonny DC lines..they talk down to kids..if its like that or archie they go 'fuck it' and go and play xbox.

    i for one would like to state in no uncertain terms that i think you are absolutely entitled to your opinion and should state it whenever you feel like. hell i support most of what you say. sometimes i don't..most times i keep my mouth shut because really..some of your readers are the same kind of dicks that attacked you like the guy who told you to die in a fire..but directed at me. i've gotten quite a bit of shit whenever i say anything here and really its fine. let people say what they want. i'm true to myself. i come here because i'm interested in the subject matter and your opinions. there are quite a few who're just here to look sensitive or because its 'a chick' writing it..i won't name names under any don't worry guys..i won't out you.

    anyways, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and i am entitled to disagree with things. i like some DC books. i don't give a fuck about teen titans as its shodily written. judd winnicks work makes me cringe at the shittiness. i like grant morrisons work..i did some of the green lantern i don't see DC as all bad..theres alot of shitty stuff but to condemn them completely just doesn't seem all that proactive to me. it comes close to a bizarre form of mccarthy-ism. like if you read DC you're supporting the commies or some shit or if i read DC i'm contributing to a hate crime. when most fans read what they like regardless of the ramifications in a story. i've talked to many who've read the books you've talked about like the teen titans stuff and they are mostly 'meh' on the book and barely noticed anything really wrong. most opf these people are my age with dreadful social i kind of question who's reading depictions of teenagers in compromising situations. at least in japan they are open and honest about being fucked up. i respect that. the idea of owning up to ones fucked up ways is a hell of alot more honorable. so my suggestion..should i'm even payed any attention other than the 3 idiots who'll tell me to 'fuck off because she's cute' or yet more death threats..would be to really attack the strongest points..attack them for the wrong they did to you...attack them on the harrassment. hell on the grand violations in the comics and the attitudes about it..attack the shit out of that too. but don't forget to live your life and maybe drop attacking everything they do and instead fight the main problems at hand. because really posting every singe woman bleeding picture out of context and floating things out there to inspire outrage when a guy at marvel kinda went off a bit on a rant about gay marraige and the orson scott card crazy bullshit is going on. you can't ignore some things and fight others in this business. if sexism is going to be crushed you have to fight all ends if you wantto win. you can't go DC bad, and ignore things marvel does or image does or whatever. i know its personal to you and i don't want to take away from that. but if shit is going to get any better you really need to evaluate the strategy a bit. if you want to really be taken seriously you can't just go for one guy while working for the other guys and ignore what everyone else does..because it looks biased and petty. i don't want to discount your efforts but there is a better way to do this. rally the troops..start up complaint letters to the parent company (a things DC fears the most is the parent company catching wind of shit), boycots, hell i'm sure we can get enough folks together to stage a demonstration at DC's offices. thats a great way to build up momentum and facilitate some real change. applying pressure that way is much better than attacking every last thing they do on a blog. a blog is a first step. if you want to really push some change its got to be stepped up and really i would certainly get involved in that. i can get behind an issue like that.

    really i'm only trying to help and say that while i don't agree with some things you say i most certainly would fight for your right to say it. i just wish it was more focused in a more proactive way that ultimately helps the industry get past the bullshit and make good product again. something that makes it so we aren't talked down to or forced into gender roles. to be treated as people instead of 'this one has a penis..this one has a vagina' fuck that..people wrionged you and they've done nothing to really help the issues other than force product thats more or less insulting to a certain group. you want Didio out or want to faciliate change you have to bloody their nose..start some community organizing..picket the damn place. do whatever is legal to really fight. complaining about everything to such a high degree only makes people numb after months of it. i know this for a fact..i went through personal problems..i'm still going through some real shit..all the legions that followed me..most got bored and left..others just got apathetic..hung around but said nothing..and a few went on a campain to hurt me as much as they could because i was a fuckign downer. all i want to do is make comics for everyone. but instead of being looked at for the work i'm more a stooge who's yelled at for having a differing view or disagreeing with the popular ideal. i kind of fear this blog becoming what i became hated for..i support you and you bring up real issues..but the feeling went from activisim to just plain bitterness.

    really..i'm sure to get some shit for if this is posted..i welcome it. i'm sticking my neck out so come at me if you need to. it's just my opinion..i may be wrong..i may be right..all i care about is presentingwhat i feel honestly.

  5. Thought about writing a great big rant about how people like this guy should get beat up until they bleed out of their ear unless they GET A F*CKING LIFE, and so on and so forth, but then something occured to me...

    PLEASE don't take this the wrong way, but I have a question for you Val.

    WHY GIVE THE GUY THE SATISFACTION of seeing his hateful little message posted, not on the comments for the post, but ON THE BLOG ITSELF, in a post dedicated ENTIRELY TO HIM?!??!?!?

    People like this moron just want ATTENTION, and frankly?
    You just played right into his misogynistic little hand.
    After all, it would only embarrass him if people actually KNEW who he was, and since he posted under an alias that is not the case.
    Plus, a guy that posts something like this is so brain damaged he wouldn't get embarrassed even if he posted his ADRESS and PICTURE on the comment. ;)

    Guys like that are so BENEATH you (no ass-kissing intended ^_^) you should not waste a yoctosecond of your life caring about the a**hole.

    Just do what a friend of mine does when she recieves hateful or annoying mail...

    Yawn and delete it! ;p

  6. *sigh* It's really sad that there's someone out there that wishes physical violence on a real human being over words about imaginary characters.

    This is a person who needs to take a long, hard look at themselves and figure out what is wrong with them.

  7. Val, Don't you know that real women don't have opinions? It's unfeminine!


  8. Wow. I guess I was wrong- there is an audience for crappy stories chock full of childish ultra-violence... and they actively wish grievous harm upon people. "Earth M's" parents must be so proud of his/her social interaction abilities. And educational acumen. Must be a joy at family reunions.

    "Pass me the potatoes, M."


    "You too, son. You too."

  9. It strikes me as ironic whenever fans of superheroes act like this. How a person can read Superman and then turn around and be rotten to someone baffles me.

    People lose themselves in the minutiae of these characters, but think nothing of what they stand for. They'll whine and moan about how "Spider-Man would never do that," and then turn around and treat fellow fans like dirt.

    Frankly, unless people still dream of being a superhero when they grow up (as this 29-year-old still does occasionally), maybe they shouldn't be reading superhero comics anymore.

  10. Anonymous10:24 AM


    And he spelled it wrong!


    He iz are doodyface.

  11. Can't wait to see the awesome content that'll be posted here.

  12. Besides being a jackass, the guy can't even spell! Everyone knows it's spelled "feminazi".Jeez!

  13. Well what do you know.

    I left a comment on his blog (along with at least one other person) telling him he should get ready for the most underwhelming reception to a new blog, like, ever.

    Within half an hour, the post was deleted. Within an hour, he deleted his blog.

  14. How terrible that someone would write that.

    But my guess is that there are ignorant people like EarthM who are XMen fans, Avengers fans, Bomb Queen fans, and Spawn fans. Of course, those fans never have anything rub them the wrong way here as they are not DC books.

    For the record I probably read DC and Marvel equally with a smattering of indies in there as well. And, as always, I enjoy readin this blog and agree with much of what is brought up.

    I simply wish I saw the same vitriol brought against the misogynistic images seen in DC brought against similar images in books produced by companies other than DC. That is not exempting DC; it is noting that DC is not alone in these transgressions. It is noting that problems exist throughout comics as an industry rather than one company.

    Or, if your history with DC is so terrible (it sounds like it was) that you can't look beyond them, if this a blog where big issues in the comics industry are presented solely in an anti-DC way, then please let me know.

    It saddens me. This was once a blog that looked at *all* comics with a discerning eye; it feels biased now.

  15. No shitstorm from me, Maddox. Your words have the stench of truth.

    I'm not going to tell Val what I think she should do... partly because it's not my place (I'm just another anonymous twit on the Internet)... and partly because I would have no idea what I was talking about. But this guy sounds like he's talking sense. If Val is feeling any dissatisfaction with her progress, I think listening to Mr. Misery is a good place to start.

    If not... well... carry on, I guess.

  16. EarthM could have argued that Val has taken instances of violence against women in isolation to make a broader point and thus robs events of their possibly justifiable place in larger stories by a spectrum of different writers with different personalities and inclinations in an attempt to paint a picture of institutionalised misogyny at DC. DC treats its male characters just as badly on many occasions, and it's possible that reading it as a larger picture being painted may be viewed as selective reading.
    But then that's what a considered opinion is - when someone produces examples to reinforce their argument - one I suspect comes as much from firsthand experience of the DC working environment.
    With consideration and composure, you can argue there's an element of interpretation, but "Die in a fire, Feminazi" is a pretty childish and reactionary retort to what has so far been a not-unreasonable argument, and it helps paint the opposing viewpoint as one of entitled fanboys angry at the growing voice of internet fangirls.

    For my money, whatever the DC working environment, their books are across-the-board excessive in terms of violent content - does Brainiac really need icepick-armed tentacles ripping people's brains out and stabbing Supergirl in the face? All the gore smacks less of misogyny and more of a lack of ideas leading to shock tactics, not unlike the growth of slasher films in the 1980s and 90s when the horror genre ran out of steam and devolved into a catalog of humourous slayings until the genre started becoming playful and knowing with an awareness of its own shortcomings (and now with Hills Have Eyes, Hostel, Saw, et al, it's back to pointless gore again).

    New writing talent and new thinking. That's the way to go.

  17. You realize that Wendy was the one that survived right?

    Guys get beat up all the time in comics, women get beat up and it's like O NOEZ VILENZ AGAINST WIMMENS!!!111 IM AFFENDED WHERS MAH DOLLAR????//SLASH

    Focusing on violence against women when there's plenty of violence against the males (marvin got killed, red devil was tortured, etc.) is sexism.

  18. Every now and then I ask myself why I don't get more involved in the comics fan community, and then I read comments like Earth M's and I remember.

    Personally, I'm fed up with the rampant misogyny that seems to permeate some corners of the fan community, but I just can't understand WHY people do this. What does it get them? Is it just for the attention? Or is it because they don't know any other way to talk to women?

    I know that it's not exclusive to the world of comics, either; it's becoming the way of the Internet in some places: a quick trawl around [anti-]social networking site Hatebook throws up some, frankly, disturbing comments on the pages of the female members.

    I guess the point I'm slowly crawling towards making is that I'm just tired of these little trolls popping out from their parents basement and jumping straight on the internet whenever - Shock! Horror! - a girl dares to have an opinion on ANYTHING or...even dares to use teh Internets...

  19. It's not the point. The point is that DC is, pound for pound, pulling this crap more often with their popular female characters than Marvel is. Don't believe me?

    When was the last time you saw Storm or Ms. Marvel raped or stabbed and left for dead?

    Name it. Please.


    And if it happens to males at DC or Marvel, and it's just done for shock value with no redeeming story quality it's just as bad.

    DC just feels like they're trying to *be* Marvel, or their idea of what they think Marvel is.

    It's sad.

  20. Anonymous10:33 PM

    Maddox Misery's post is a fine argument for punctuation and grammar.

  21. Hey, Peter!

    You were great in "Sports Night" and "The Lost Room"...

    ...Oops! Wrong Peter Krause...

    You were great on POWER OF SHAZAM.

  22. Attacking Maddox Misery's post for his lack of capitalization without actually, you know, rebutting the content of his post, says quite a bit.

  23. Anonymous10:52 PM

    The DC boards are fantastic for stupidity.

    In fact, the comic book fanbase in general has some pretty fucking stupid (and scary) people in it. There's this guy (married with a kid) that compares anyone that has a criticism about a comic he likes to women or injured women. I wonder if his wife knows he's sexist.

    (He named his kid Allison Katherine - yup, that's right: Ally Kat).