Wednesday, March 26, 2008

Any Star Wars Haters In The Audience?

As I was looking at these "Star Wars Zombies" pics at /Film, the following question popped into my mind: does anybody here "hate" Star Wars? Or merely dislike the franchise?

I cool with Star Wars but I wouldn't consider myself a "fangirl" about it. Apparently, "Return of the Jedi" was not the Citizen Kane-like masterpiece I remembered it being when I was 8


  1. Not so much hate as deep, deep disappointment. I saw Episode I on opening night and went from fan to active avoidance in 120 minutes.

  2. empire strikes back still stands as quality for me. the rest of the flicks can go to hell and die there.

    i don't have much experience with the side-merch, the books, the cartoons, the comics-but i imagine i'd hate them too.

  3. Loved the original films as a kid but I hate the new films and I hate how comic book conventions have been co-opted by star wars fans... Trekkies have their own conventions, so why can't the Star Wars guys and leave the comic conventions alone.

    Comics Fan does not equal Star Wars fan

    I seriously wonder about folks that think the prequel films are great because they're not. They're like video games that you can't play. All busy and no story...

  4. I probably rank as a fanboy. I even liked the prequels - although they could have done with a lot of rewrites and editing.

  5. Anonymous2:43 PM

    The prevailing theory about true Star Wars fans is that they love the potential the series offered but hate the practice.

    Personally, I think Star Wars gets a bad rap. For me, the only serious gaffes have been the use of the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi, Hayden Christiansen's acting (if you wish to call it that), and some plot holes (like why Obi Wan doesn't seem to remember R2D2). I'm sure others will have a myriad of complaints, but all in all, I think if one takes the series for what it is, an intergalactic soap opera, and stop trying to make it serious sci-fi, then it gains its merit.

  6. meh im not real into star wars or star trek.

  7. My stance is probably closer to Rich's. For all that was wrong with the prequels, I still enjoyed Ewan McGregor's take on Obi-Wan, and the final battle in Ep III. I even enjoyed Liam Neeson's Qui-Gon for being almost an anti-Han: no snark, no cooler-than-thou swagger, just a man trying to do right by the bratty kid he ended up adopting.

  8. Every time I tell people that Attack of the Clones "wasn't that bad," they throw things at me :-(

  9. Val,

    That statement probably makes them relive watching the "romantic" scenes between N. Portman -- and how much of a trainwreck did her character turn into, no? -- and H. Christensen.

    Anyway, two more things I liked about the prequels:

    1. Samuel L. Jackson as the strongest Jedi this side of Yoda (If not for Anakin's interference, Mace would've taken down the Emperor solo.)

    2. Leia being revealed as a "Latin" adoptee (c'mon, it's Jimmy Smits, you gotta gimme that small victory.)

  10. Somebody I know recently referred to Return of the Jedi as "Episode 6" as the end of the story, and I suppressed an urge to kick her in the armpit.

    I so wanted to like the sequels. There was so much that could have been done better. Like, for instance, making Anakin Skywalker remotely likeable, let alone a hero. (Why didn't he free the slaves of Tatooine?) The prequels and the re-edits have really cast a pall on my enjoyment of the original movies.

    I desperately awaited the re-releases and the the first two prequels. I excused much of Phantom Menace so that I could be positive about the next movie. I have never seen the third, and I don't want to.

    The interesting thing is that it looks to me that one effect of these developments is that the Star Wars fandom now has a higher concentration of gross, now that so many balanced, intelligent people have been turned off. And I'm talking fandom, not enthusiasts.

    Star Trek now has a lot more normal fans than Star Wars. And the next Star Trek movie will probably increase that difference.

  11. I was born in 1971, so I was just the right age for Star Wars to be imprinted on my brain when it came out. At first I didn't like the prequels, but then I realized that the only reason I loved the original series as much as I did was almost pure nostalgia. While they are essentially superior to the prequels, they also suffer a lot of the same flaws. So, while they aren't high art, I enjoy the prequels in much the same way I enjoy the originals: as fun spectacle.

    You know what I am getting sick of, though? Zombies.

  12. I hate the people who, through the glow of nostalgia, don't realize the first three are no better than the new three.

    "Sith" is my favorite of them all.

  13. I have Star Wars fatigue. It had its moment of fringe culture coolness in about 1995 or so and now it's so mainstream as to be practically orthodoxy. But what I'm tired of isn't the movie series, it's the constant "Here's another thing with Star Wars shoe-horned onto it."

    Chad Vader was somewhat clever but this stuff is way out of hand now. I know there's no putting the genie back into the bottle. Somehow people got the idea that when you put Star Wars characters within another context, instant hilarity and Internet meme-hood ensues.

    The latter might be true, but the former hasn't been for quite some time now. Star Wars related humor is now as boringly commonplace and played out as those "Chuck Norris Facts." Combining it with zombies- another played out fad- just increases the lame factor infinitely.

    What's next? Star Wars versus pirates versus ninjas?


    And while I can't stand the fake competition between geek franchises (hey, people it's possible to appreciate more than one thing at a time), I'm more of a Trek person these days. I'm excited about the new movie but I'm also just as happy that it's fallen back into sort of a niche fandom. I'd rather be part of a close-knit group than a worldwide conglomeration.

    But my true fandom?

    Planet of the Apes! Apes rules and its fandom is the wave of the future.

    Not the "reimaging." That... thing... is anathema.

  14. I enjoy all of them for different reasons.

    Sure the prequels seem clunky in terms of acting, dialogue, etc. But then one should remember we're judging what has always consistently been a 1930-1940's-eque serial with all the melodramatic trappings with adult eyes. We certainly weren't as sophisticated back during the Original Trilogy.

    And kids today are more sophisticated than we were then so you can't even fairly use them as a comparison.

    I enjoy the prequels for a more complex in-depth story, and the OT for the magical ride it was that can never quite be recaptured.

  15. Swinebread -
    well, lots of things do not equal comics fans. Superhero fans don't, manga fans don't, Disney fans don't etc. etc. Personally I don't really mind Star Wars fans showing up at comic conventions, after all there is a big overlap and I think that of the Star multimedia franchises (Star Trek, Star Wars, some also include Stargate), Star Wars is the one where the comic spin-offs are the most important in relation those in other media (for Star Trek, my uninformed guess is that the ST comics come in as a poor third after films and paperback novels). The first Star Wars comic-books were launched soon after the release of the first Star Wars movie and probably did a lot to keep fan interest on the boil during the the intervals before the sequels.

    Also I would say that Star Wars has a more comic-booky feel to it than Trek, when I first saw Darth Vader, I certainly noticed a strong resemblance to Doctor Doom.

  16. Anonymous11:29 AM

    Pish, it is so cool to hate on Star Wars these days because of all the hype backlash and not wanting to be labeled a nerd. The first three were great. The second three got progressivly better. The clone wars cartoon network shorts were goddamn all the time awesome.

  17. On a related note: Has everyone seen the upcoming Disney and Muppets Star Wars figures?

  18. Hated the original three. Saw the first of the prequels but haven't seen the rest. Given what seems to be the majority view on Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, I have no real desire to. Can't say I never will; some of my friends could always decide to watch it while I'm around, and I won't get up and leave. But if it wasn't something they were especially enthusiastic about, I'd vote to change the channel. Besides, I know what happens. The princess has twins, the Jedi get killed, and Anakin joins the dark side. The details don't matter.

  19. Are we just talking about the movies here, because I basically love the original trilogy, beginning to end, and still call Jedi my favorite. The prequels I can leave or take, but I've had debates with friends about whether it would be better to show our future children the movies in chronological release order or in episode order, and it's a really tough question. That said, I really enjoy what I've experienced of the expanded universe. I've read 5 of the novels (including the Zahn trilogy) and a smattering of comics, and have to say Legacy is consistently one of my favorite comics. When I think Star Wars, I think about all the stories that have spun out of the first film and regard that universe as being as interesting as anything that DC or Marvel has spun in the past 30 years.
    That said, I know few people that hate Star Wars that don't hate sci-fi in general. Some people just don't care for that genre.

  20. Well, Star Wars is a space opera, which is a subgenre of science fiction. Many space operas, and the argument could be made for Star Wars, are more of action movies with sci-fi elements than straight science fiction. Space operas often opt for pyrotechnics and miss out on what makes science fiction a good genre for exploring the human element. At one point a few years ago, I began to try to watch more of what I called "good" science fiction movies; these would include films like Logan's Run and Children of Men, which speculate about what the consequences of our society might be or what might happen if something affected society drastically. Star Wars doesn't really do this as much as it uses people in robot costumes covered in sand.

  21. People who say they hate science fiction don't make that distinction, Chris. I was using the term "Science Fiction" loosely in the same way most people lump everything with Robots and superplagues under the banner of "Sci-Fi/Fantasy." To be honest, I always considered Star Wars to be fantasy. That said, I always went by Isaac Asimov's definition that the true aim of the genre is to use scientific possibilities as a plot device to reveal some general truth about humankind (also the ultimate goal of myth, according to Joseph Campbell, whose heroic archetype is the basis for Star Wars).
    Logan's Run and Children of Men are actually both in the Cozy Catastrophe subgenre of Science Fiction. Back to the Future is Science Fiction and focuses on the individual impact of one man's scientific discovery. Jurassic Park uses the science fiction plot element of cloning to make a statement about hubris. Statements on society are just one element of what "real" sci-fi has to offer.

  22. You're absolutely right. I probably should have used more diverse examples to explain what I meant. And people do lump it all together, but I think people sometimes don't realize that something like 28 Days Later or Children of Men is science fiction - general audiences, I mean, not cool dudes like us. There just aren't any robots or aliens.