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Thursday, October 30, 2008

Jim Shooter's Legion Blues


You can always count on Jim Shooter to provide a frank -- if unflinching -- perspective on things. His interview with CBR regarding his departure(s) from Legion Of The Superheroes -- and the current title's demise -- is no exception.

In the interview, Shooter goes over what he felt was his own failures on the series -- as well as expressing the opinion that he was treated to an extent unfairly by DC. In fact, he goes so far as to allege that the real reason Legion is being cancelled at #50 is to get rid of him:

"Sales of ‘The Legion of Super-Heroes’ aren’t great, but they’re a lot better than those of some of the titles they’re keeping. I think canceling the book is a graceful way of getting rid of me. I complain too much and too loudly.

I'm torn on this issue, as I do have a great amount of respect for Legion editor Mike Marts. I worked with him at Acclaim Comics, and he is a class act all the way.

On the other hand, I think Shooter is an elder statesman of comics, and especially of Legion of the Superheroes. He originally wrote the title, I believe, while still a teenager. I know he has a reputation of being persnickety, outspoken, and uncompromising, but I still think he is a dedicated and talented writer.

Further, in a world full of spin and passing the buck, Shooter in that interview reserved the biggest criticism for himself:


"But let’s focus on the real culprit – me. I guess what it really all comes down to is that my work wasn’t good enough to overcome all the small problems further down the line. If you’re out at first base, it doesn’t matter if you slide in at second."

I said this once about John Byrne, and I'll say it now about Jim Shooter -- like him or hate him, he's one of those people who had an enormous impact on this industry, and will always be remembered as one of the key figures in comic book history. I'm sad to see him leave the title he was so much a part of on such a bitter note.

That said, if I had to guess, I would think that Geoff Johns' own plans for Legion probably played a part in both the problems with the book and its subsequent cancellation. Perhaps at some point DC decided that they really wanted to go with Johns' plans for the book more, and so in the battle for competing visions for the future of the title, Shooter lost.

This not to suggest that Johns in any way specifically was looking to jettison Shooter's Legion. This the way things fall sometimes. That said, it would have been far better to let Shooter's story be told first, give him some room, and wait before launching a new direction on the book.

I wish Shooter's return on Legion didn't have to end so abruptly.

20 comments:

  1. the jim shooter years at marvel produced many of the best comics of my lifetime. (though the new universe stuff was baffling as all get out).

    i know many hated him as EIC due to his dictating nature, but marvel has never even approached the level of storytelling since he left.

    i only read my first legion story a month or so ago, the best of legion trade, so i do not know if this book was any good, but his captain comet series @ 1YL was fantastic.

    sad to see him out at DC.

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  2. Fascinating, too, to read about "Super Lad" and how Jim feels he got screwed on that deal.

    But it seems that DC has somehow solved (at least temporarily) the Superboy conundrum, which may have made the creation of a future scion of the House of El unnecessary, which Shooter either ignores or is unaware of.

    Overall, though, an interesting confession of sorts.

    But politics at DC? I'm shocked, shocked.

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  3. Shooter's a bit hard on himself, since the failure of the title was well underway during Mark Waid's tenure and his daffy "Fight the Power" youth movement tangeant he launched the book with. The Legion is many things, but pseudo-activism has never (nor ever will be) one of them.

    As for Shooter's connection to the Legion...come on. That was some forty years ago...I think even Shooter himself doesn't see his parting of ways with DC as some kind of diss on his very early professional work. I think Shooter's influence at Marvel and, later, with the dazzling (initial) success of Valiant Comics, is his more significant contribution to comics.

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  4. DC's decisions on the LSH are a textbook example of how to kill a book. The minute they let Johns use an alternate LSH the reboot was dead.


    I liked the interview. There has been a lot speculation about what happened and why and I am glad this clears things up a bit.

    LSH was only the mainstream DC book I am reading. oh well, at least I have Vertigo.

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  5. I'm amused that Geoff Johns is doing the revamp for Legion, as he's already plundered the cartoon show for ideas over on the Superman titles and All Star Superman is no longer in print, so I'm stuck for where he's going to get all his original ideas from now.
    Maybe the Legion will discover they're being Secretly Invaded by shape-changing aliens or something crazy and left-field like that?

    But, yeah, Jim Shooter - like Byrne, he got the work done and inspired others. I'd add Chuck Dixon and Dan Jurgens to that list of writers who can work on a title without a superstar mentality or feeling the need to radically reinvent everything from the ground up to tell good stories.
    And Abnett and Lanning for being under-rated but solid workers.

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  6. I miss Abnett & Lanning on the book, personally.

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  7. @Jack - Maybe the Legion will discover they're being Secretly Invaded by shape-changing aliens or something crazy and left-field like that?

    Already done, back in 1988 in the Invasion! miniseries. The Durlans were part of a group of invading alien races.

    Notice how Shooter made it all about him?

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  8. I've always been a Shooter fan. I know his success ends up leading to his failure. He doesn't seem to get that writers aren't bigger than properties/characters and sometimes you should just keep your "self destructive" opinions to yourself ... Point being made by Jim (himself) about sales not being as bad as other books yet I'm (he's) still being canned...

    ArrrOOOooo!

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  9. I'd personally have loved to see Paul Levitz return to the book since his stint on the LSH book was probably my favorite.

    But I agree with a lot of the comments here about the current book being doomed from the start. And now there's the hot mess that is Legion of Three Worlds. Oy.

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  10. With Shooter, you're getting one of the foremost comics minds of the past 40 years. But you're also getting a big, big pain in the ass. It's just the way of it.

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  11. @Valerie D'Orazio

    DnA's doing a fantastic job on Wildstorm's Authority and Marvel's Nova series

    I miss the jim shooter years at marvel...Ah Memories

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  12. Y'know, Mightygodking busted out some compelling arguments for giving him a Legion title. Too bad his site's apparently been suspended.

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  13. Shooter gave Marvel direction at a time when it needed it. He might have been a pain in the ass, but you can't argue with the results her got.

    I grew up on Shooter's Legion. It was what got me hooked on comic books when I was a little kid. For me, his original run on the Legion in Adventure Comics is still among the best runs ever by a writer on a series. His current run is just now hitting its stride, and I'm enjoying it very much, but...

    More than likely, I'll buy Johns' LSH serires when it starts. I hope it will be good. But this is how many Legion reboots? It's symptomatic of the current continuity vs consistency problem that the industry is struggling with right now.

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  14. Do you suppose there's a place for Jim Shooter at Marvel? How about Chuck Dixon?

    Peter David seems pretty happy at Marvel right now and, considering how often he's been jerked around during his comics career, I think that's saying something.

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  15. @ Val - I miss Abnett & Lanning on the book, personally.

    I've wondered for a while now what the real point of the threeboot was (all cynical answers aside). I get that they wanted to try the whole "youth movement" idea, but I don't think they needed to drop the ZH version off in limbo to do it if they really wanted to - could have just been handled as a "new direction" with what was the established cast. Never mind the fact that this aspect actually got pushed off to the side quite a bit relatively early in the new series.

    Just seems like excessive rebooting for the sake of telling a new story that ended up by the wayside. And the ZH Legion had actually been built up quite well as an ongoing separate from the original.

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  16. @ ohnochriso - I'd personally have loved to see Paul Levitz return to the book since his stint on the LSH book was probably my favorite.

    One of the recent cons had a panel including Keith Giffen, where he threw out a random question to the audience asking what they'd think of another Levitz/Giffen run on Legion. Then DiDio led out near the end of the Con that DC had one more huge announcement. That turned out to be Gaiman doing a 2-issue Batman stint after RIP.

    Interesting, but not what I would consider "huge" - I wondered if maybe these talks were actually happening at some level. Personally, I'd have mixed feelings because I think it would be hard for them to capture what they had before. Could actually end up being Shooter all over again.

    I'm all for giving another creator with a lot of ideas a shot. The MightyGodKing list of ideas was a huge favorite of mine for a long time.

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  17. Wait a minute... I'm not a huge Legion fan, but isn't most of the title just relaunching previous stories and ideas? (I think the Amalgam issue dealt with this, and all the various art styles as well.)

    Jim Shooter is to blame for seducing my innocent soul. First, with reading Secret Wars #4 in study hall (where the superheroes get buried beneath a mountain), and then a month later, with Amazing Spider-Man #254, where Our Hero is wearing a black-and-white union suit.

    Shooter and Byrne and a whole host of others can produce some great storytelling. DC should take two of the 52s and set them aside for the Golden Age and Silver Age DC style of storytelling. Let Shooter play in that sandbox (just like Byrne played there with "Generations", and Gaiman will play with "Caped Crusader") package the books to please the fans and the curious browser, and let it be.

    If the Golden/Silver titles sell better than the regular DCU, then perhaps editorial should take a look at the tone of each book.

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  18. Lessee...
    Editor-In-Chief at Marvel
    EIC at Valiant (and helped Joe Quesada)
    EIC at Defiant
    EIC at Broadway
    EIC [blink] at Daring Comics

    Broadway was the most interesting, as they were later sold to Golden Books (which owns many of the properties Valiant successfully rebooted). Golden Books is now owned by Classic Media / Entertainment Rights (what a catalog!) and partly by Random House (which distributes the Golden Books line).

    (As an animation fan, I am salivating over ER's catalog. Filmation AND UPA. Jay Ward. Harvey. mmmmm....)

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  19. I blame Mark Waid for Legion's cancelation. The book was off to a good start until until his last arc, which he drug out so long that I just quit reading it. I guess now I'm going to have to go back and see if Shooter's run was any better.

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