Like that will actually happen. More likely, Blue Beetle (which just got canceled) gets rolled into Teen Titans, while Titans limps along until a new "reboot" ("mea culpa, the new book sucked but we've got this awesome direction now, disregard everything else, we've got it right now").You know, I'm looking up all the comics that inspired me as a kid, and I just bought the Wolfman/Perez "Terror Of Trigon" Teen Titans trade. The stuff is so good it actually hurts. The detail George Perez put into composing even one panel was mind-boggling. I didn't know half the back story in that arc but Marv Wolfman made it so I understood what was going on anyway, and I still cared about the characters. That arc was so special, it was like an event -- but it wasn't an event, they were just regular issues.
I see that a lot with the old trades I buy. The stories seem so special and well-done that they seem like events. But they were monthlies. The comic creators involved -- and most likely the marketing teams -- didn't act like the book was god's gift to humanity, "instant collector's items." They were just doing their job; they were just comics, created to inspire and entertain.
What went wrong? Did the "star" system of comic creators starting in the late 80s/early 90s make people complacent, even lazy? Did the quality of the editors go down? Did some editors become "afraid" to properly edit "star" books and "star" creators (I've see this happen)?
Or is it a case like in the 1990s where books like Titans appeal to the broad base, regardless of quality, and that's good enough? Whereas a critically acclaimed book like Blue Beetle just doesn't pull in the numbers, doesn't appeal to that broad base, and so is canceled? And if that's the case, does the buck stop (literally) not with the editors or the creators but with the public?
Or, taking into account the comparative direct market shares for DC and Marvel, has that already been decided, and is the easy-to-please "lowest common denominator" audience not so much the public as Time Warner itself?
Wolfman's writing (like Claremont on X-Men) is pretty dated, and while I find it almost painful to read now, I do appreciate that they went all out for every issue. Those were the days and I fear the trade market has ruined everything, or, at the very least, changed things irrevocably.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I think that comics today really are better than they were twenty-five years ago, in general. It's like classic rock radio stations -- they only play the good music from the past decades, which creates the impression that everything from the past was better. One doesn't remember the unmemorable.
Was Teen Titans heavily marketed back then?
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen any of the ads lately, but I imagine DC is mostly hyping Crisis stuff, JSA, Batman R.I.P., and New Krypton.
You know, the stuff we're most likely to buy anyway.
It strikes me that a large portion of the problem is that Blue Beetle was meant for a teenage audience... and what teenage audience are you going to reach through the Direct Market?
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame that DC didn't try and do the same thing that Marvel did with Runaways and the digest sized trades. If I recall, the success of those digests kept Runaways afloat for the first year or two even though DM sales were hovering around or just under cancellation levels. It gave the book time for word of mouth to spread.
No matter what, John Rogers, Keith Giffen, Cully Hamner and Rafael Albuquerque gave us one of the best runs in the past decade
ReplyDeleteIt is a real shame, too, because Matt Sturges was really getting his footing. I still look forward to the end of his run.
Also, that leaves both Jaime Reyes and Traci 13 without solo series and they are some of the most fun, drama free, age appropriate characters in the DCU.
This leaves the best written version of Jaime in the pages of Tiny Titans. Hell, Tiny Titans is the best Titans book being published now.
Titans is starting to turn around a little once they actually started to EDIT the book and Judd decided to stop the "Friends with Superpowers" crap and just let the characters interact with each other, so I'm curious to see if things genuinely improve.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I say cancel Teen Titans and let Blue Beetle stay. I'm working on my own thoughts on the subject now, but more or less summed up: why the hell does a twisted and idiotic book like The Boys get 39,000 sales and gets to live on, but Blue Beetle gets the shaft both sales wise and with the cancellation?
I think the audience has a lot to answer for. In a medium where creators can talk with a straight face about "what makes a good Batman story" (for example) rather than just *what makes a good story*, there's something up with audience expectations.
ReplyDeleteThe Direct Market comics audience has a lot of peculiarities, as do the publishers serving it. I can't think of any other medium where the majority of new material from the biggest publishers features mostly characters and settings created between 40 and 70 years ago.
That's not to say the publishers don't bear some responsibility, given that they have contributed directly towards having an audience that's apparently terrified of change and invested in their characters to a sometimes-creepy extent. But it's not just their fault; that is to say, there's enough blame for everyone in this situation.
What would happen if every publisher canceled everything for one month...
ReplyDeleteWould us comic geeks dig through our long boxes and dust off classics like Wolfman/Perez titans or the Giffen/J.M.DeMatteis/Maguire Justice League.
Or go into withdrawal, so bad, for new stuff that we'll like the short crappy pamphlets that are being printed now?
I can never look at that cover from Titans #1 without saying to myself, "Wait, why the hell is Doctor Doom in that huddle?"
ReplyDeleteDoctor Doom, Teen Titan. There's an Eisner candidate in the making.
Me, I think it's funny that DC is axing Blue Beetle nearly simultaneously with Blue Beetle's appearance on TV. Then again, judging by the synchronicity between TV's "adorable awesome Teen Titans GO!" and publishing's "By the way the dog just ate everybody, P.S. how do you feel about teen date rape?" left hand and right hand might not have the closest relationship.
Agreed. This last issue of Titans, it's like they're trying too hard.
ReplyDeleteI'll point out that it's the better material from older eras that tends to get collected, and to stay in print. There are plenty of comics from the '80s that would make you scratch your head, wondering how they ever got published.
ReplyDeleteStuart Moore said...
ReplyDeleteI'll point out that it's the better material from older eras that tends to get collected, and to stay in print. There are plenty of comics from the '80s that would make you scratch your head, wondering how they ever got published.
are you saying there was something wrong with NFL superpro?
In my opinion, some of the reasons the monthlies don't seem to stand out like they used to are:
ReplyDelete1. All the titles are homogenized now. Having "special guest stars" isn't a big deal anymore because the characters cross over into each others issues all the time.
2. The mega crossover events rob all the titles of their identity on such a regular, extended basis that the writers can't build up any individual momentum. These days a Jim Starlin CAPTAIN MARVEL, Frank Miller DAREDEVIL or Byrne/Claremont X-MEN just isn't allowed to happen.
3. Everybody's fall guy, decompressed storytelling.
So let me get this straight...DC is canceling Blue Beetle right around the time the character will be featured in the new Batman:The Brave & The Bold animated series?
ReplyDeleteWay to draw potential new fans to the material.
- Frank Esposito
Wickliffe OH
I don't know. All I do know is that this sucks. A lot. Ya know I try to be a mature non whiny geek. But just... GAH! I mean Beetle pretty much had everything that made me love comics in the first place. For my money one of the best supporting casts since the Messner Loeb/Waid Flash days. And Jaime reminded me a lot of myself as a kid. It was a pleasure to watch him grow as a character.
ReplyDeleteAnd as for Titans or Teen Titans for that matter I wouldn't read that shit if you gave it to me at this point.
I don't understand why people hate Titans so much. Admittedly, I've read only the Titans East special and the two most recent issues, but they were, I thought, among the better, more traditional (and less graphically disturbing) issues DC's recently published. Titans and Madame Xanadu are actually the only titles I'm enjoying from DC right now. Admittedly, I never liked the Wolfman/Perez Titans; I'm a fan of the cartoon version, and this is the closest I've seen the comics come to what I liked about the Titans on TV.
ReplyDeleteAs for Blue Beetle, I loved the character in Teen Titans and The Brave and the Bold, but have never liked his series. (Ugly artwork can be overcome by good writing, but the writing in the issues I read was only serviceable, generously.) Actually, Blue Beetle's is a situation not unlike Supergirl's. She's a great character who's done fantastically in guest appearances (particularly those written by Waid), but has an essentially unreadable home series.
Thanks to Frank for mentioning the Brave & The Bold angle to this story. To cancel a property just as it's about to be featured in a brand-new television show smacks of lack of planning.
ReplyDelete"The Judas Contract" or "Terror of Trigon" will always stand up far stronger (despite some cheesy 80s writing cliches from Wolfman) against any of the yawntastic stuff they've been filling the current Titans book with for year now.
ReplyDeleteWow, where did my reply go? What I said was I agree entirely. The last issue of Titans is like they're trying too hard. Beetle, I think what did him in from finding an audience was the book didn't get REALLY good until #17 or so when it found its voice. 16 issues is a long-ass grace period to ask of an audience.
ReplyDeleteNooooooooooo!
ReplyDeleteBlue Beatle Bueno.
Thats the capacity of my spanish. Blue beatle has been great. Its got so much promise.
Thats it I'm only reading the Goddamn Batman now. Eat that DC.
At this point, the '80s Teen Titans have reunited more times than '70s album rock bands, and with about the same results.
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised BB's getting canceled. The quality of recent issues has really gone down lately...though that could be because the writers etc knew that this was coming.
ReplyDeleteI really love Blue Beetle, but the quality of recent issues made me want to cancel my subscription =(.
*sigh* I want to do the art for a Blue Beetle comic one day...maybe I can convince DC to let me do a one-shot? lol.
As with any creative medium like movies or television, when something fails in comics, the excuses usually center on it being the fault of the audience rather than the creators of the material - in the case of comics, it's usually the nebulous and ephemeral tastes of 'the fans' responsible for a book failing to secure an audience, though usually 'The Internet' is blamed like it's a single individual out to destroy comics, rather than a bunch of bored assholes punching keys pretty much at random until the nexy episode of Mad Men finishes downloading.
ReplyDeleteI think that continuity-heavy universes aren't friendly to newer teen books because characters come with baggage that supposedly 'new' readers won't be familiar with, and eschewing that was part of the reason the Teen Titans cartoon and spin-off comic book was so popular, as a newer audience didn't need to be aware of every nuance of Robin's backstory to get what he was about as a character - he was just 'the dude from Batman and Robin'.
This is really disappointing news. I was thinking not that long ago that it was nice DC was keeping Blue Beetle around after cancelling Birds of Prey and Manhunter were axed, so this is a real kick in the head.
ReplyDeleteBetween this and Spider-Girl, Nightwing, Robin, New Warriors and the Flash ending, and cancellations of Justice League Unlimited and Checkmate (which was a mercy killing anyway) earlier this year, I'm a very sad comic fan.
Have a good day.
George Morrow
As with any creative medium like movies or television, when something fails in comics, the excuses usually center on it being the fault of the audience rather than the creators of the material.
ReplyDeleteIn a way, yes. If the audience isn't there, it doesn't matter how good the book is. It will disappear.
DC saved Manhunter from cancellation more than once, and Marvel did the same for Spider-Girl. The audience just wasn't there. The audience was too busy reading Countdown.
Audiences are not entirely blameless. That whole "vote with your wallet" thing.
Audiences are not entirely blameless.
ReplyDeleteYes they are: they're consumers and they're under no compulsion to pay for something if they don't want it. "The customer is always right" because it's their dime.
Of late, however, the audience 'not being there' or 'being distracted with videogames and celphones' has become a PR mantra in some circles, and it seems a shame that many are too scared of losing access to journalistic sources to just come out and say that maybe the products on offer just plain suck.
(I'm not talking about Teen Titans or Blue Beetle specifically here, just making a general point)
Yes they are: they're consumers and they're under no compulsion to pay for something if they don't want it. "The customer is always right" because it's their dime.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I see what you're saying.
But, to retcon my earlier thoughts, I think what it really illustrates is that no one is to blame. DC and Marvel did their part to keep books like Manhunter and Spider-Girl going (they could have done better... but to be fair, they also could have done nothing), and it's not the audience's fault if they simply don't want to read those books (for whatever reason).
If you asked me what went wrong, I'd say, "They stopped selling comic books to everyone and started selling them to comics fans." The Direct Market was too good of a deal to pass up (every copy printed is a copy sold, no overprint costs)...but the hidden price was in the visibility of the product line.
ReplyDeleteWithout comics on newsstands, fewer people got into comics. Basic economics, this means the price goes up (if you need to make X dollars, X is AxB, where A is the number of units you move and B is the amount you charge. If A goes down and X has to stay the same, B goes up. "Paper quality" is a dodge.) Higher prices are a barrier to the casual fan. Which means the audience continues to dwindle. Which means the prices go up. And all the while, you've still got the same visibility problem; if you're not walking into a comics store, there's a good chance the only comic you know is still being published is Archie.
As publishers get desperate to attract a greater percentage of a shrinking fanbase, they resort to shock tactics to sell comics--you know, killing off Superman/Captain America, changing the Hulk's color to gray/red, canceling and relaunching the Justice League...all of which alienate dedicated fans in the long-term even as they build sales in the short term. Those fans leave quietly after the "event" ends...which, to publishers, makes it look like the only viable way to keep sales up is to go straight from one event to the next.
I'm probably the wrong person to talk about this specific issue (Titans vs. Blue Beetle), because even though I like Blue Beetle and dislike Titans, I'm not buying either one. Can't afford to right now. High prices, low visibility, and irritation with the direction of the line has officially reduced my comics buying to zero. I don't know when that will change, and frankly, it's not my problem. It's DC's problem, it took them twenty-plus years to create it, and it might take just as long to fix it.
this will seem a retarded question to ask but someone please answer me :) i have a button that has the "old" teen titans on it, the titans in the above picture, can you pretty please list the names? i know cyborg and beast boy but i can't remember the others...
ReplyDeletethank you :)