Looking over a stack of early 1970s DC comics I just bought, I realized that the company had Steve Ditko, Jack Kirby, and Wally Wood working for them all at the same time. I wonder what that was like, from the editorial end? I wonder if it was like, "we've got these landmark comic book people working for us right now." Or if the three were even appreciated as such at that point. Or were they looked at as just artists, just employs. It's not like they were working on the top books, though perhaps the intention with New Gods was to be the next big comic? I don't know.
It just goes to show, it's all relative. Who are our Kirbys, Ditkos, and Woods right now, that we don't even quite realize it? Or do we (and the industry) do a pretty good job now in recognizing our true geniuses?
it's well-documented that these legends at that time were treated like, well, crap!
ReplyDeleteThere's been a lot written particularly about Kirby's poor treatment at DC and when he returned to Marvel in the 70s, when some now well-known writers and editors, then working as assistant editors and the like, worked to undermine Kirby's confidence and popularity by planting critical letters in lettercols and the like.
Very shabby treatment.
Who are today's great creators? That's opening an endless debate. But I'd say not many of them are working at DC or Marvel.
The real genius of Ditko and Kirby is that they were innovators. They created their own characters and style.
Most of those at the Big Two today merely play with the piece Ditko, Kirby and--yeah--Lee forged in the first place.
jfire
www.popculturesafari.com
Nice points. Makes great thought-provoking...ness. Right now, Neil Gaiman, Warren Ellis, Willingham, DeMatteis, Denny O'Neil, Sam Kieth, Mike Allred, and a handful of other writers. Don't get me to list artist. I would go on for...just don't. This is my opinion though. Just thought I'd state that because the statement is too subjective. All I know is that I trust them when they write something. I've said the one's that, of literature, have changed my definition on of what I consider good, memorable, and worthy of mythos.
ReplyDeleteNow, were the greats acknowledged in their time as they are now? Can't say. But, I can say that they will always deserve more no matter how much praise they get.
In regards to today's artists, I'd say comic fandom has a way of elevating certain creators to legendary status even though they may not quite be deserving. Or, at least, not deserving quite yet.
ReplyDelete-r-
John Byrne.
ReplyDeleteForget his debacles on the Internet. When he's clicking as the artist on a story, he's one of the best.
George Perez.
'Nuff said.
There's more, but these were the ones that immediately sprang to mind.
Oh yeah. And Steve Rude.
I'd nominate Brian K. Vaughan, Pia Guerra, and Paul Pope for that honor. In some ways, I think all three represent a significant improvement on the Kirby legacy. If comic books ever break out of the ghetto, it will be largely due to their efforts.
ReplyDeleteI've never understood why Kirby and Ditko are so loved. I really disliked Ditko's art when I was a kid, and found Kirby's mostly serviceable (if occasionally excellent). Today, I don't feel very differently.
ReplyDeleteArtists like Alex Raymond and Jerry Seigel were and are much more to my liking, and their artwork reflects a much greater skill and displays far more beauty. Kirby showed some unusual talent in his breakthroughs in exaggeration of angles, and Ditko in his surrealism, but both were deficient in basic anatomical rendering, to the point that their figures often looked ill-formed and grotesque.
That said, I love Dr. Strange, Thor, The X-Men, and the New Gods despite fundamental and distracting problems with their artwork.
Oh, regarding modern masters: I think they tend to be appreciated. Jim Lee, Paul Dini, John Byrne (alas, declined), Darwyn Cooke and others have been rightly lauded for their skills and innovations even as the products of their work have been popular.
ReplyDeleteThere's not an artist out there today who could put out what those guys did in terms of quality and quantity. I think any artist working in comics today would faint dead away if the had the workload Ditko and Kirby did. And not only did they put out umpteen books a month, they made them look *good*. Mind you, every space of every panel wasn't filled with some sort of intricate line or squiggle the way they do it now, but those books -- Fantastic Four, Spider-man -- they were just fun to look at. Dynamic.
ReplyDeleteI don't really see any Ditkos and Kirbys out there on account of that. Or any Gil Kanes or Joe Kuberts either. There are lots of Neal Adams types: very good, flashy artist who won't stay on any title for long, but who leave such an impact on the titles they do work on that they are associated with those titles for decades. But I don't see anyone today with the combination of skill, style, and output that Kirby and Ditko had.
I agree with you, Richard. To an extent. Let's take Alan Moore for instance. I think he is a fantastic writer. He'll be remembered for a very very long time. But, I personally just think he's not this infalable author. His concepts are fresh, but he is not this literary-deity that creates the end-all, beat-all like some proclaim. Like, his Swamp Thing "golden-egg" was basically what Marvel's Man-Thing was for a good while. Man-Thing took the dark-fantasy turn that made the character different before Moore's Swamp Thing. Watchmen is just Charlton characters, Extraordinary Gentlemen are just literary characters he took to put in his story, V for Vendetta was actually amateurish with muddy art and he admitted it. He himself has said he can't understand why so many get crazy about his books. Oh, and by the way, I was "bashing" those titles listed earlier in jest. I honestly liked those all. V was rough, but memorable. But, on that note: Are Alan Moore's over-rating fanship justifiably over-rating his works? Yes. He has reached a deserving point to where his past works and impressions on readers will sway opinion in a zealous way. They aren't wrong, it's how they feel, so they can't be.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I have complete respect for the deserving, but I am by no means a traditionalist. I enjoy the new as much, and sometimes more, than the old. I know, my opinion isn't valid anymore. How dare I like Wally more than Barry! Blasphemy!
(I give a Jim Helper grin to the computer screen.)
Tom Beland.
ReplyDeleteHands down.
Now, you may look at him and say, "But he just wrote his life, and a highly mushy version of it at that", but he's got a way with words.
In the big boy swimming pool? Bill Willingham.
On an unrelated note, Peter David just had another book canceled on him.
ReplyDeleteI think the problem with comics today is there are too many Stars.
ReplyDeleteComics took a bad turn when the creators became bigger than the creations.
I don't know if they're our Ditkos/Kirbys or more our Will Eisners, but Los Bros Hernandez need a shout out here if we're talking currently active masters of the form. Not only do they put out some of the finest artwork to grace comics, but also some of the most involving and well-written stories.
ReplyDeleteAnd they've been doing this for over 25 years now!
Why Jaime and Gilbert aren't mentioned every time Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore are bandied about, I have no idea. I like both those writers but as far as I know they don't also draw their works.
Mike Baron is underappreciated. The Nexus: The Origin book he and Steve Rude did back in the 90s was pretty close to Moore territory.
Mike Allred is another guy who writes and draws on a different plane from your run of the mill creator. The writing is at times a little rough but that gives it more charm. His art recently underwent a startling metamorphosis... even better than ever. He went from being just one of my faves to completely blowing my mind at a Mark Schultz/Al Williamson level.
And Mark Schultz. A guy who consistenly turns out well-plotted and intelligent stories but whose mere sketchbook stuff is light years beyond any of the fan-faves holding down best-selling titles at Marvel and DC. And his finished work?
WOWEE WOW WOW!
He's in a league with Frazetta, Williamson, Hogarth and cats like that. Book illustrators. That's another world entirely from the four-color stuff.