News of the cancellation (or theoretical cancellation) of ABC's "Pushing Daisies" made me wonder about the fate of other quirky/action/sci-fi/fantasy TV shows. You know the shows I'm talking about -- the ones they push down our throats at every San Diego Comic Con. The ones "fans" are supposed to like. Comic-booky shows. Like "Heroes."
How did "Heroes" make the slide from hottest show to right below "Smallville"? This wasn't supposed to happen.
Let's look at other shows who have failed to make the cut over the last year or so: "Knight Rider," "Bionic Woman," "Journeyman." Christian Slater's "My Own Worst Enemy" was also gifted with Quirky Action -- and it lasted only a handful of episodes this season before getting canned.
Which of the following shows will make it to 2009 and beyond?
Chuck
I know my BF will hate this, but I'm going to say it -- I'd be very surprised if "Chuck" gets another season, and if it does, I'd be very surprised if it fills out that new season before getting axed.
Heroes
The cult show is on the skids, but will NBC invest in it enough to redeem it? Maybe one more season, tops. It's just too expensive to make. Also, the show has a plot with a projected end-point -- which makes it harder to "stretch out" season after season.
Lost
Is this season the last one? If not, maybe one more after this, to wrap things up. See my notes on "Heroes."
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
Does the big budget of this show warrant another season? Will Fox invest in it, hoping for synergy with the upcoming movie sequel? That might be the only reason they'd renew it for another couple of years.
Fringe
Is anybody following this? It doesn't seem to have attracted the cult following of "The X-Files," but I could be wrong. I don't know if this one will last.
My prediction: most shows won't make it to next year's Fall season. In addition, with the purported ending of such shows as "Smallville," the fad of sci-fi/action/fantasy/quirk genre of TV shows, outside of perhaps cable, will be over.
Instead, look to seeing more period pieces such as "Mad Men". That will be the new fad. And with less sci-fi/fantasy shows being made, that means less advertising money being poured into conventions like SDCC.
Is anybody following this? It doesn't seem to have attracted the cult following of "The X-Files," but I could be wrong. I don't know if this one will last.
My prediction: most shows won't make it to next year's Fall season. In addition, with the purported ending of such shows as "Smallville," the fad of sci-fi/action/fantasy/quirk genre of TV shows, outside of perhaps cable, will be over.
Instead, look to seeing more period pieces such as "Mad Men". That will be the new fad. And with less sci-fi/fantasy shows being made, that means less advertising money being poured into conventions like SDCC.
In this sort of environment, would debuting TV shows specifically based on comic books work? Or is that what the public really wants -- not "faux" superheroes like Chuck but the Real Thing?
HI, Valerie. Been following your blog for a long time, and even though I disagree on some things, I like you, your style and your take on things.
ReplyDeleteNow, I never felt the urge to post but, since you mentioned my favorite show (Lost), I have to say: The show (which starts the 5th season on january 21) will have one more season (so 6 in all).
It was during the 3rd season that ABC saw that the creators couldn´t keep stretching things to have the show last longer (and ratings were declining), so they met with the producers and set the end for the 6th season (the 4th, 5th and 6th will have less episodes - 16.
Hopefully, this will interest someone here to watch it. If you never watched it before, buy the DVDs. You won´t understand anything if you don´t watch the previous seasons.
So, keep doing what your doing and God Bless You.
PS - I should mention I´m brazilian (from Rio de Janeiro), so forgive me if there is any big errors.
The problem with Heroes is that they're just rehashing the same idea each season - one of them goes into the future, sees death/destruction/apocalypse, and spends the rest of the season preventing that future from coming to pass.
ReplyDeleteI keep waiting for one of them to say "You know what, no matter what we do, the world seems to be f---ed due to our existence."
Unfortunately, Chuck is not doing well in the ratings. Here's a look at the ratings from this past Monday:
ReplyDeleteAs usual, ABC's "Dancing with the Stars" (11.7/17) had the biggest audience by a wide margin at 8 p.m. CBS finished second with "The Big Bang Theory," 6.2/9, and "How I Met Your Mother," 5.9/9, and tied ABC for the lead among adults 18-49. "Chuck" earned a 3.9/6 for NBC, beating "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" on FOX. "Gossip Girl" delivered a 2.1/3 for The CW.
Not good for Chuck. Even less good for Terminator.
Then, at 9 pm:
ABC held the lead at 9 p.m. with the final half-hour of "Dancing with the Stars," 12.3/18, and "Samantha Who?," 7.3/11. "Two and a Half Men," 8.9/13, and "Worst Week," 6.0/9, kept CBS in second. "Heroes," 4.7/7, continued to struggle for NBC, although it still finished ahead of "Prison Break," 3.2/5, on FOX. "One Tree Hill" held steady for The CW.
Heroes is getting toasted by Samantha Who? and Two and a Half Men. Yeesh.
Heroes will last because it's a signature series on NBC right now.
Lost's ratings were pretty okay last season. It will end when it's supposed to end and not before.
Good luck to whichever network exec decides to make a Mad Men clone. It's a singular show that's almost unclonable (as compared to a sitcom, a lawyer show, or a police procedural). But, I'm sure someone will try.
The last network show with an actual hero in an actual costume was The Flash in '90-'91 (not counting Birds of Prey). As much as I love it, it's not a great show and lasted a season. So, for faux-hero shows to be in their second and third seasons is good.
In the case of Lost, I think you are underestimating the lure of future DVD sales. I suspect that the TV series will eventually be a seven year long trailer for an extremely lucrative DVD set(s).
ReplyDeleteDidn't ABC have a press release announcing the finale of Lost a year or too ago? I'm pretty sure that happened. It's fate has been sealed, you don't need to speculate on it.
ReplyDeleteLost has two more seasons left and then will end (I think). Heroes seems to me like they are just making it up as they go along. It worked for a while, but once there was enough backstory established then the overall structure got exposed as flimsy.
ReplyDeleteTrue Blood and Dexter are where it's at for me.
ok my theory on heroes is thus: I am having a hard time keeping up this season because they made us wait so freaking long! same thing with Lost. why is the season starting in February or whatever? am i supposed to set aside some time to "reconnect" with the last season in order to enjoy the next? Heroes totally lost me this season but i'm trying, dammit!
ReplyDeletealso, if Jin is really dead i might protest Lost anyways.
Lost will have one more season after the one that starts up in 2009. The creators and ABC reached an agreement that seasons 4, 5, and 6 would only have 16 episodes each, so they could tighten the plot and work towards a set end date.
ReplyDeleteFringe and Terminator have been given a the green light for a full season of episodes. They've got cult followings at the moment (not X-Files level, but they're new), and FOX will probably give them at least this season, if not part of the next to generate more buzz.
Hi Valerie,
ReplyDeleteFYI, Lost is locked in for two more seasons. Exec Producers Lindelof and Cuse cut a deal with ABC guaranteeing they could finish it out, which they'll do at the end of season 6. So it's safe.
The other shows? Not so much.
GREAT BLOG!
Ah, I see everyone else jumped in with the Lost info as I posted...
ReplyDeleteI think this the end of particular type of genre show: This type of quirkyness rooted in Joss Whedon and J.J Abrams. It started off on WB/Cable and gradually made its way into the mainstream big four networks and now the general audience is weary of this approach.
ReplyDeleteI think there might still be a market for genre shows, but there's a need for for new shows to do different thinks than mimicking Lost and Heroes tendency towards season long storylines with no real resolution between episodes and that sort of generic visual style most of these shows seem to have.
So yes, there's still a chance that a TV show based on a comic could still work, but if someone is doing say The Question (or Dynamo 5, or Nick Fury, or what have you) as a TV series, one should be willing to try to give the show a unique identity based on the strengths of the premise instead of trying to make it seem just like Chuck, or Heroes etc.
At worse, such a show would do about as badly as My Own Worst Enemy. You end up becoming a hit though, and you're doing bigger and better than just being "one of those" and then the other tv producers will be copying YOU...for a while at least.
I really think you might be overthinking this a little bit. "Pushing Daisies" got cancelled because it didn't bring in very good ratings. That's really the be-all and end-all of it. Television networks would broadcast a three hour special of a cow deficating into a bucket if the thought people would watch.
ReplyDeletePUSHING DAISIES MUST STAY.
ReplyDeleteThe rest are rubbish. Heroes hasn't been good since season two & I have officially given up on it. Knight Rider? Really? Bionic Woman was unwatchable. Journeyman I never say. My Own Worst Enemy I didn't have faith in, so I never tuned in.
Chuck. Whatever.
Heroes. Please cancel.
Lost. Eh. Still watchable.
Terminator. I hear this got good after I stopped watching?
Fringe. I've still never seen.
Terminator is dead - Fox are moving it to the Friday night 'suicide spot' right before Dollhouse...
ReplyDeleteShame. It flagged but this week's episode was a scorcher.
And I agree about Chuck. But then I hated Chuck after about episode three.
The most recent episode notwithstanding, watching Heroes is a chore.
ReplyDeleteGenerally speaking, being haphazard with time travel totally unravels a narrative. Heroes now has to sleep in the disjointed bed it made. Frankly, they need to kill off Hiro or take away his ability.
You got it. Heroes lost its way; instead of expanding on what they started in the first season, they tried to redo what they did with the first over and over. The first was great, the second forgettable, and this last not interesting at all.
ReplyDeleteKnight Rider was crap. They had a good premise in the pilot movie, but once the series started they camped it up way worse than the 80s show ever was. Their cast is basically pretty people with no talent, the Matrix and Transformers effects are annoying, and they actually use a green screen, POORLY, for driving scenes. Not to mention the car is a lot WEAKER and less advanced that the original ever was.
Others like Pushin Daisies and Chuk it's just a simple case the same was with the comics; the great ones fly under the radar and fade into obscurity until someone discovers them in a discount bin some odd years down the line. As with comics, I don't get why some shows last season after season and others get canned.
I think that the main issue with Chuck is that it's not being pushed at all, it's kind of like that support band that can perform live much better than the headliner. I'll be disappointed if it were axed, but not surprised. It'll probably just become one of those quirky, pop cult shows that geeks remember for a long while.
ReplyDeleteLost has saved itself, simply by setting an ending date (After season 6). Everyone knows how bad the second season went and that's mainly because there was absolutely no direction. Once they had managed to finish off the digressions made, the quality of the show have picked right up again. It's safe to say though, that it won't be axed. Hopefully the ending will be explosive, piquing people's interest again, who will then (as many other people have commented) will go out and buy the DVDs.
I'm personally enjoying Fringe. It doesn't have a massive viewship, but I think that it's a pretty stable view (IE. They're not throwing curve balls in plot left and right). I hope that it doesn't get cancelled.
As for Heroes. The only reason that I'm watching that any more is through obligation. Characters are completely disposable, and the story is liable to change on a hair pin. As a viewer, I don't feel it's worth investing in a show when the writers won't even do so their selves.
We've been following Heroes over at Racialicious (/plug) and yes, the show is crashing and burning, not because it's sci-fi, but because it's become bad television. Tim Kring's recent declaration that the show was "all about" the Bennets and Petrellis has pissed off a number of viewers, as well.
ReplyDeleteI also tried giving Sarah Connor Chronicles a shot earlier this year, since My Beautiful and Beloved Shirley Manson joined the cast, and couldn't stand it after 2-3 weeks. It was just so monotonous in its' doom and gloom, it wasn't even worth it to invest in any of the protagonists. So, it's not Shirley's fault the show sucks.
As for Chuck, apologies to your boyfriend, but that show has always been trash.
Just wanted to note that I watch and am hugely enjoying FRINGE. They're delivering solid individual episodes while building a great early mythology. It's got its first-season hiccups, but I still recommend it highly!
ReplyDeleteI was going to mention it, but other people have already posted the fixed end date for Lost. Also, the last two seasons of Lost have been very good. And almost every episode last season was great. It's season 2 of Lost that really dragged.
ReplyDeleteChuck - I hope it gets renewed, but I worry whether they can come up with story ideas whether the characters will develop over time.
Heroes, if they can have their characters behave consistently and actually follow through on a storyline and not appear to be throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Terminator will get the axe.
I like Fringe and I hope it lasts.
With respect to Daisies (which I love), there are sometimes benefits to cancellation. In this instance, Bryan Fuller said he would love to return to Heroes and he would be likely to greatly increase the quality of writing.
You also mentioned Journeyman, which I enjoyed greatly and wished it had been given more of a chance. I know I did not watch it at first because I thought it was a Quantum Leap rip-off, and I wasn't a big fan of QL.
Sequential storytelling on television is difficult. Like comics, it is difficult for new viewers to become involved. Older viewers lose interest, and soon the series disappears. Free episodes online help counter this. (That was how I got hooked on Arrested Development, I bought the DVDs the next day.)
ReplyDeleteNow, to counter this, you have critical acclaim. That helps sell the first season on DVD (see Arrested Development and Pushing Daisies) which the helps gain new viewers and possibly a loyal audience.
Warners owns Pushing Daisies. The cast is excellent enough (even the coroner is interesting) and quirky enough that it most definitely would become a cult classic. They could (if the contract allows) move it to the CW, where lower ratings are less problematic. The cost of each episode is not exorbitant, although they do use some special effects.
Pushing Daisies could be a new Moonlighting. The writing and dialog are excellent, and they will never jump the shark like Moonlighting did (well, they could, but it would be weird).
If you like romance and strangeness and a set design reminiscent of Edward Scissorhands, buy the DVD. (Jim Dale does the narration!)
You can watch it here:
http://abc.go.com/primetime/pushingdaisies/index?pn=index
(Comics! Pie recipes! Paul Reubens!)
Heroes should be rebooted to resume its place at the end of Season 1. I don't know what else could possible save this show.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, you've had a great of run of posts these last few weeks! Looking forward to Cloak and Dagger (January right?)
I've been chagrined to see all of the negative reviews Heroes has been getting, lately. Personally, I don't get it.
ReplyDeleteThe shows I've seen this season seem as engrossing as the first season. The only difference I've seen is that it isn't new anymore.
Course, I also liked Bionic Woman, so what do I know.
-greyman24
Battlestar Galactica made a terrible plot choice midway through the second season and hasn't recovered.
ReplyDeleteLost eviscerated itself midway through second season along a fatal flaw starting with the fifth episode of the first season, and is now a randomly generated show.
Heroes blew all its narrative ammunition in the first season, and sputtered out in the finale. It's just recycling spent cartridges now.
All three of these programs started off with the big idea, which is what's hot in TV fantasy now, but it's still all along the dysfunctional and obsolete model of participationism.
The entertainment system rewards writers who don't know how to tell stories, can only resort to cheesy homages to better material whose creators are already spent, and those whose only true skill is the resort to force and illusionism.
It's the end of an era, the dying out of the old road. Thank god, I'm through with all the heartbreakers. The future is in low-buy in, audience narrative-driven, fifth-business small company storytelling.
I never got into Pushing Daisies...I watched the first episode and thought it was too precocious for its own good. I have enjoyed the Sarah Connor Chronicles but if that were to go away, I wouldn't miss it too much. I think Fringe will get another season at least, as Fox will put it's weight behind an Abrams show AND will want to have at least one new show they consider a "success". Smallville is about the worst thing on TV right now. Lost will get it's full final seasons played out. Heroes will get one more year to clean up it's act or it'll be gone. And Chuck...if Chuck goes, I'll understand but will be very, very sad. I think it's one of the best shows on TV right now, be it sci-fi or otherwise.
ReplyDeleteHowever, a couple shows weren't mentioned...Reaper and Supernatural. Reaper will probably have to perform better this year for a third season. Supernatural has a five-year plan, I understand, with one year to go after this season, so I can't see the CW pulling it yet. Plus, it gets decent enough rating that hold onto a lot of Smallville's crowd. Add to that a few shows that are mid-season replacements or coming up next year with supernatural/sci-fi twinges and I think there'll still be a presence for at least a couple years.
What terrible plot choice did BSG make midway through it's second season?
ReplyDeleteLost info already said - but I was saddenned to hear that My Own Worst Enemy was cancelled this morning. I loved the show in the short episodes it has shown.
ReplyDeleteHeroes was strong, but didn't have a great direction. I hope the show's format influences storytelling for awhile, but the creators seemed to lose hold of the characters themselves.
Enforced plot isn't character development. None of the progression they did this season is any kind of natural development.
Gossip Girl is HUGE
ReplyDeleteI think we're due for some 80s period pieces. At least half way into Obama's administration.
ReplyDeleteHeroes is sputtering out simply because the show isn't that good anymore.
ReplyDeleteFringe and Terminator are decent, but anything on Fox is in trouble. (Yes, I'm still bitter over Firefly).
I love Chuck, I just wish NBC would move it to a safer spot. Pairing it with The Office might be a good move.
But I don't think genre TV is dead by any means. The success of True Blood on HBO proves that if a show is fun and well-made, it has a chance to succeed.
As someone mentioned, Heroes does feel like work to sit through. It has lost its charm somehow...it's still in there somewhere.
ReplyDeletePushing Daisies. Man, I really like this show. Doesn't surprise me. When it comes to comics and tv, I jinx them. I completely believe me liking this show is what is cancelling it. Heh. I know, too superstitious. Cuz if I look at most the list...never gave 'em a try. I think it has to do with shows that "copy". As in, the story-based fiction is really hot right now...although, like torture-porn, only a handful are worth seeing (Saw & Hostel...they're still kinda fun.) But, I watched Chuck and I get it, it just really isn't my thing.
Fringe shocked me. It has all these subjects on conspiracy-theory, "Right up my alley, ya?!", and it just sucked. It's really boring with its wooden-dialogue. Everytime I see that guy, I'm like, "Do-do-do, do-do, do-do-do, do-do, I don't wanna wait..." Ha! Ya. Plus, is it me or is Abrams really REALLY over-rated. Lost is just okay...its really milkin' it. And, I think people are noticing. I still like Lost, but Fringe...uck. And, Cloverfield and M.I.3 were terrible. It seems Abrams keeps doing these distastful allusions to 9/11. And, you know, with Lost you do have that "moment" of blank stare and contemplation of 2001, but then Jack starts helping people...you see humanity, etc. But, then Abrams is like terrorist...but this time they look like you. Plus, this'll help Tom Cruise swat-off those nay-sayers that he's straight. Come on, Tom...really? We don't care...we're just laughin' at your lies. Heh. (Back to Abrams) Let's destroy NYC...With what? Oh...uh, how about a monster? What kinda monster...I don't know, lets plaguarize a classic sci-fi movie, Beast from a Thousand Fathoms and, of course, Godzilla. Gotta new show called Fringe...1st episode: Biological-weapon on Plane. Another episode: Girl with electric powers short-circuits an elevator, people inside with her fall to their deaths, and many more. Far too many allusions. It's really lazy righting and it's disgusting. I'll say it again, I'm all about freedom of speech, but there is something called respect. Abrams can say/write whatever he wants. I just don't care. Plus, a heckuvalotta LOST isn't Abrams writing.
I'm done Val. Sorry, just felt like trollin' Abrams a little...as in a bunch. Heh.
jmy: The choice to make Pegasus a satellite character to Galactica.
ReplyDeleteThat choice limited the settings Moore and Co. could use and showed how unimportant the characters were to the show. The illusionism couldn't be sustained under those conditions, and the premise disintegrated.
It's an issue that affects all the shows on TV: The lack of permission for characters to matter. All you're left with is setting, which does change situation, but doesn't address premise.
You have to use force to keep the illusionism going - to keep people from figuring out that what you're giving them is more than just artificial tension. Conflict-escalation-payoff is how storytelling is supposed to go.
If you can't change character because it might threaten the "intellectual property", you're milking the pilot episode and painting yourself into a corner.
That's why these shows run out of steam so quickly. They're not allowed to do anything new or fun.
Well, others have corrected the Lost comment, so I can leave that one. The problem with Heroes is not with some same-old studio, but rather, it's run by an idiot that thinks comic book fans are cattle.
ReplyDeleteWith the exception of Chuck, which I think has actually gone deeper into structure and plot this year, and the aforementioned Lost, the other shows you listed are garbage anyway. Either by merit or just not being anything more than a concept.
I think what's going on is this: post-Reality TV, a new kind of "staple show" emerged - the Smart Stupid Show. It was just intelligent enough to make you watch it, and then it just didn't try. I think we're starting to "get it".
As always, I'm a big supporter of the British model because it just creates better television. It means stories are plotted from beginning to end and treated like a whole work. It means filler is less likely to be created, it just gets straight to the point and stays there.
ReplyDeleteThere are a few shows that benefit - I think - from the overlong structure - Lost being one, The Wire being another - but most shows just meander. That was the problem with The X Files, for instance. Three seasons of 7 episodes each and it would have been tight and brilliant instead of endlessly meandering.
When Freaks and Geeks was canceled I was annoyed at first, but then I realized something - basically the show lasted for 3 British seasons and it's practically perfect. Why would I mourn the opportunity for it to plod along and get really bad? Thank goodness for cancellation, I say - when it really works righ, it keeps shows from destroying themselves.
"Battlestar Galactica made a terrible plot choice midway through the second season and hasn't recovered."
ReplyDeleteWhich was what?
The Pegasus? The time-skip? Maybe it's me, but I thought those were plot directions that had fairly good consequences (if only for a little while). Maybe the emphasis on Starbuck's "speciality"? I could buy that, I suppose.
I dunno, personally, I still love the show, even into the fourth year. Sometimes they can get a little heavy-handed with the political allegory and some of the decisions regarding the Cylon "mythology" aren't quite what I would have expected, but it's still one of the better shows on TV.
The depressing reality is all of the shows you mentioned suck.
ReplyDeleteSeriously. And you know what? They pretty much always had.
Yes, HEROES seemed compelling (emphasis on "seemed") when it started. I felt a tremendous anticipation for the moment they all started acting like heroes, or breaking off into villains.
It would be the easiest show in the world to write: take all the conventions from the comic book world and put it into TV. Legion of Doom. Justice League. Outsiders. Brave and the Bold. All these different mixtures and have fun with them.
But the writers never did that. In fact, they seemed to have no understanding of the medium/genre at all. I quickly became bored and by the end of Season 1, I realized they had no friggin' clue where they were going.
Same can be said for LOST. You watch it. You think, "Huh...cool. Wonder where they're going." Then you realize the answer: nowhere. They have no clue.
You can even argue that by the end of Season 2 of GALACTICA that it became clear they have no clue what they're doing. They had one season figured out. That's it.
When you listen to interviews of the writers and realize that they literally chose who the "secret 4 cylons" were by picking names out of a hat, you realize it's a mess. I mean, THAT'S how you're going to decide a MAJOR plot point-- names in a hat? What about having a point of view? Making choices due to theme?
Nope. It's all just a plate spinning game until either the audience or the network catches on and the ratings drop.
CHUCK is insulting, because it's "network geeky." The show is too cute for its own good. They hired a really, really good looking guy and put him in a white button shirt and gave him an ED-style haircut and said, "Look! A nerd!"
Screw you. I wish I looked like that kind of nerd through high school and college. Maybe a girl would have actually talked to me.
No. I looked like a 12 pound, floppy haired, pale virgin wearing a Flash t-shirt.
I think the real problem here is the lack of authentic storytelling. KNIGHT RIDER is insulting, because it just feels like a grab for money. It's almost as if the execs at FOX are screaming, "Hey 35 year old douche bags! You loved the show when you were a kid! And we really want your money! So, we inexplicably slapped the name of this old show on this new one, got a washed up actor from the 80s to do some VO and put it on the air! Watch it!"
We need more shows like BUFFY. I miss those days.
Ted
By the way John...couldn't agree more about FREAKS & GEEKS. I was enraged at the time to lose my favorite hour long show of all time (LARRY SANDERS is still my favorite half hour).
ReplyDeleteBut then, when I bought the box set for F&G, I realized-- it's a perfect 13 hour movie. They got to the end and the characters changed, evolved and moved on. Where else would you go?
It was a great ending. Just as Val said recently that comics will be shorter, more defined runs, I think TV series should also go into their runs with an end point in sight. There should be less emphasis on getting a 6-9 season run and more emphasis on telling cool, compelling, interesting and authentic shows.
Because we're catching on to the soulless feed that's being forced down our gizzards.
T
I hear you karterhol, and I think you're right about Val calling it. It just feels like comics are evolving into a form that doesn't support open-ended, until-you-drop titles anymore.
ReplyDeleteLow buy-in, endgame-oriented stories are where it's going. And TV is going to have to follow, because like you said, 6-9 seasons with current models aren't going to do it anymore.
BlueMaxx - that is a frighteningly accurate description of the execrable and lazy Fringe. I gave up on Heroes early in Season 2, and I'm happy I did so. It was just getting dreadful - which made me think that it would drag on for years! Maybe the subset of viewers who gave it good ratings have more taste than I though!
ReplyDelete