Kurt Amacker in his Comicscape column on Mania points out 5 specific problems with American comic books:
1. Convoluted Continuity
2. Crossovers and Tie-Ins
3. Delays and Scheduling
4. Overemphasis on Superheroes
5. The Fans Who Encourage/Put Up With It
I think the mainstream comic book industry's investment in all of the above as a long-term strategy is a mistake. And I think the industry is sort of schizophrenic on the issue, producing a lot of the same old thing while at the same time undermining that with new stuff. Probably not so much schizophrenic as hedging their bets and seeing what shakes out.
Personally, seeing how much Big Media is putting the pressure on their print divisions to create more web content and less paper products -- with traditional print publications like TV Guide all but extinct in favor for their digital counterparts -- I don't understand how the writing on the wall could be more clear. At least as far as digital comics go.
I just don't see the changes in all these things going on in incremental baby-steps anymore. Used to be, at least where I sat, innovations were brought in and often quietly strangled in their cradle -- because they would ruffle too many feathers, cause too much awkward moments in the transitional process.
The traditional model of mainstream American comics is like planet Krypton. It's comforting, we have a lot of real estate there, and we just installed a swimming pool. But it's gonna blow.
Excellent points. I think the Legion of Super Heroes(LSH) is a good example of several points on that list. I did not read LSH until the Waid reboot a few years ago. I enjoyed it, but long term fans were unhappy and sales were low. Jim Shooter was brought in, but now it seems he may be on the way out, and the book may be canceled and rebooted again!
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, Geoff Johns is writing about another LSH that knew Superman as a teen. ugh! There are a now at least 3 versions of the LSH running around the DCU. I don't find that interesting, I find it somewhat insulting and dull.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but to add to the mix... I'm currently reading "The Ten-Cent Plague", and its a sharp reminder of what the industry was like before comic companies retreated to the safety of the direct market and insulated themselves from creating new readership.
ReplyDeleteThe influx of manga and the varied topics therein does prove there's a market for other kinds of stories. But with the direct market (comic shops selling superheroes to superhero fans) the method of reaching those audiences seems incredibly limited.
With the newsstands and spinner-racks gone the way of the dodo in most places (and especially places reachable by young readers), what model will work for reaching a new audience? What new kinds of stories can be generated without using the Asian market as a testbed before the US imports the better titles?
The internet seems obvious, but the catch is that most young readers will also balk at PAYING for online content (they don't pay for music now).
DC and Marvel are currently making money as boutique retailers of superheroes. Until new blood comes in at the exec level who sees a need for a change of distribution, its not that crazy for them to let the market prove that there's a better way to distribute.
Continuity is a crutch and a hindrance. All the stories are imaginary, so who CARES if in issue # 201, Peter Parker said he has an allergy to peanuts, but in #278, he's eating peanuts at a baseball game with MJ? It's just ridiculous. If people look at the early Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four, they played fast and loose with things all the time. Hell, Nick Fury pops up without an eyepatch in those early issues. Of course, now they'll say that was a Skrull.
ReplyDelete*sigh*
Telling good stories. That's all that matters.
Interesting points.
ReplyDeleteOn the conintinuity side I'd say that a lot of it depends on your approach. It can enhance a story if used right, but if its used as a nitpicking crutch then it definitely becomes a problem. Personally I kind of miss references back to older stories that provide context, even if I've never read them; I loved that sense of history when I was a kid.
Crossovers and tie ins can certainly a problem where you need to read one comic to understand whats going on in another. Each issue or story should be self contained and be able to be taken in its entirety. If it gains more meaning if you read something else, I think thats okay - like I said, the problems arise where you have to read something else to understand it.
Delays can kill a comic - does anyone actually care what happened to Kitty Pryde at this point? I think things have got better recently but its still an issue.
Overemphasis on Superheroes - true, but there are other options, they just don't sell as well. I think that tends to lead on to the last note -
The Fans Who Encourage/Put Up With It - True. But then these are the people who spend the money. If they're buying what they like,I don't see the problem - the problem lies when people but out of habit rather than preference.
Not that I'm guilty of that...
On the digital front I think that its definitely the way forward, but like other people have said the difficulty lies in finding a business model that works as well as the current one.
Any digital initiative for new content from any publisher would have to have a net benefit on the bottom line against the current model. Certainly you save on physical production costs, but online advertising tends to be cheaper than print and often varies on clickthroughs and page views. It'd be a complex model to put together to be viable as a straight alternative for the bigger companies.
I think Krypton's safe for the next decade at least...
Now in white! ¿Ocassional Superheroine in snow?
ReplyDeleteAnd planet Krypton wasn´t a bad planet.
I don't read too much in the way of superhero books any more. I've been boycotting DC entirely since reading Val's "we need a rape" post (with the exception of some Vertigo trades and All Star Superman) and I only buy a couple of Marvel titles. Well, I don't buy many for myself. I do buy a lot of their Marvel Adventures line and the Franklin Richards title for my daughter.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I would actually prefer a lack of continuity at this point, aside from a very loose internal continuity in each book to provide context for the stories. I would have no problem reading a Spider-Man book with Iron Man in it, even though Iron Man is currently in space or drunk or whatever in his own book. One thing that mars Grant Morrison's JLA is the inclusion of the blue Superman from that stupid storyline where he had energy powers or something. Those issues could have been very timeless and iconic, but now a big chunk of them are just dated. Who cares if Superman is a blue energy being in his own book? Just use the standard model in your team book and continuity be damned.
I also agree that superheroes hold a ridiculous share of the market. Do we really need all the various spinoffs and miniseries and C-list characters getting their own books? Trim the superhero lines down to a core group of really good books featuring the top-tier characters and open up some rack space for other genres.
Just my two cents.
Honestly... don't you feel like these points have been the grist for every third blog post you've read for the last several years?
ReplyDelete(I do.)
Wait, comics have too much continuity, and too many tie-ins? Hang on; let me get a pen.
You can't win, of course. Either you're someone who gripes about these things and keeps buying all the books anyway, or you're one of those people who's complaining about books you don't even read. Still, I am as tired of these screeds online as I am of the objects of their disdain. If these are true problems, the market will correct them, rest assured. If the Big Two cannibalize themselves out of existence, something better will arise from the ashes. If Marvel implodes tomorrow, there will always be someone to come along and tell Spider-Man stories as long as there is money to be made. And I doubt people will stop wanting to make comics in one form or another, superhero or non-superhero, just because the direct market vanishes.
Continuity is one of the things I like about the comics I read. Now, I'm not talking being super detail fixated like the above peanut allergy example, but I enjoy how events and consquences impact characters in later storylines. I don't think all books need to adhere to continuity, though. There's room for both on the shelves.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why the "industry" has come under fire so much the last few years (decade?) for things that simply WERE for so long.
ReplyDeleteWhy is the system outmoded? The arguments seem the same as the music industry. Why, just because the internet came along, does every industry need to change its business model completely, shifting to web-driven solely? When TV came along, it did not kill radio, it just created another dynamic, allowing radio to focus less on dramatic programs and more on music, news and discussion. When VHS came along, films did not stop being made -- it just opened up another venue for movies that could not justify funding for screen releases. And the internet is not a replacement for other media; but another venue.
Comic books are just that -- BOOKS. We collect them because they are not just images and words, but they are artifacts, moments in time, works of art, items to share, trade and pass on. Yes, I buy music online but for my favorite artists I still buy a CD (or if possible, an LP), to have that physical item.
Are there things that need to be fixed? Yes. I believe somewhere on the interwebs I've ranted about the split demographics of comic readers, the unavailability in wider markets, etc. But I don't think we need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
And one last comment: Why is continuity such a bad thing? Comic books are modern myths. Working within that mythology not only provides incentive for newer readers to go back and discover the older tales themselves, but it gives future writers a paradigm in which to craft their tales. Else you get characters that are wholly unrecognizable and lose readers in the long run (as the majors did with me for 15 years).
I'll agree with #1-3. #4 "The overemphasis on Superheroes" needs to be revised to overemphasis on corporate owned properties (which includes all licensed properties).
ReplyDeleteAs for #5- when you have an industry of retailers who are fans and creators / publishers who are fans - what the hell do you expect?
We are in desperate need of a legitimate publisher in this business that focuses strictly on original, creator owned content of all genres and knows how to market and distribute their product properly. There is nothing even close to that in existence right now.
When I started reading and collecting comics I thought of continuity as a "challenge" and this "challenge" made me want to see if the writer(s) could work within the previous writer's structure and the contimuity of the book and the universe. I didn't get torn up if a new writer screwed something up if the current story was good though.
ReplyDeleteNow I just don't have the time, energy or cash to follow all the books in any universe to make sure continuity is adhered to...
ArrrOOOooo!
You know, I understand now why OS/Valerie doesn't really want to invite the complainers of the internet to nitpick her blog.
ReplyDeleteI'll never understand why someone would complain about the topic of a post on a private blog they don't have to read, but hey.
On the digital front I have to say that niche magazines (what comics are if you look at them the right way) are doing better than ever. I read a marketing industry article (like a lone voice in the wilderness) pointing out that a large portion of internet marketing goes ignored while print advertising is still performing fairly well. That information leads me to believe that comics should be doing pretty well right now, however I do think that the industry has failed to make what it does accessable to new audiences. Their plans to do so seem to frequently go awry. Honestly, can you pick up a new issue of Amazing Spider-Man right now and know what's going on without prior knowledge of One More Day? Marvel had a great opportunity to lead the digital comics revolution with their online service. It wouldn't have hurt floppy sales much if at all.
ReplyDelete1. Continuity is NOT a hinderance or a crutch when used properly. It only becomes convoluted when you start going the ways of soap operas, and then continually reference the needless events. The way I see it, the history gives a character depth, and so long as they key points are kept in the limelight and everything else brought up on an as-needed basis, continuity can be a boon. In the days when I started writing over drawing using established characters I was able to tell the stories I wanted WITHOUT violating any continuity (except where I was clueless, but that was rare) and without being hindered at all. It can be done, folks.
ReplyDelete2.These are insane. Crossovers contributed to the bust in the 90s, and now they're back in full swing. I'm sick of events. SICK. Tie-ins also render the crossover pointless, because everything happens OUTSIDE the core book.
3.Delays are inexcuseable. In the old days, writers had a stack of backup scripts handy for the event they fell behind. And there's no reason a MINI SERIES should be released before the second to last issue has gone to art and the last is already scripted.
4.Granted.
5.Also granted.
As we head towards the paperless society we're supposedly already in, comics really should consider a new medium. They've already begun slowly working their way into digital media, but a lot of people like something tangible and are thus resistant to that. Mayhaps if they invented a paper-thin computer-like thing where comics could be uploaded, accessed and displayed on the fly. Someone call Bill Gates and get him on that.
"Delays are inexcuseable. In the old days, writers had a stack of backup scripts handy for the event they fell behind."
ReplyDeleteRight there with you, "Wolverine."
I've commented (or blogged?!) about this in the past -- Yeah, fill-ins suck sometimes, but it's better than potentially losing readers by keeping them waiting. Plus, and this was especially true in Marvel's case, those back-ups and fill-ins were the chance for up-and-coming talent to step in and possibly get noticed. I guess in these days of Hollywood writers scripting our comics that's not so possible anymore anyway ...
"Any digital initiative for new content from any publisher would have to have a net benefit on the bottom line against the current model. Certainly you save on physical production costs, but online advertising tends to be cheaper than print and often varies on clickthroughs and page views. It'd be a complex model to put together to be viable as a straight alternative for the bigger companies."
ReplyDeleteYou're assuming everyone owns computers and has internet access. Even the people who have the stuff can't always access content online. I have a ten year old computer system and I can't run a number of current programs like YouTube or download videos and online comics and stuff without a hell of a lot of hassles, whether they're 'free' or not. I'm sure I'm not the only person out there who doesn't and cannot replace their system every 2-3 years, either. When you keep advancing the technology beyond what the common man can afford to possess, you're just creating social and economic class alienation.
Comics are supposed to be affordable entertainment for the poor, not exclusive content for the priviledged. And that's one of the big problems for comics today. They've chosen to try to 'grow up' as a medium, instead of respecting their history and maintain markets for different ages and economic backgrounds. Nowdays you pretty much have to have as much disposable income for comics as you do for video games, DVD / CDs, prose books, etc. And they do not measure up. You don't get the story content versus prose for the money. You don't get the entertainment value dollar for dollar against the other media options. Not the way the industry is doing things.
Hence, lower sales as people have to make the choice of what's the better value for their entertainment dollar.
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rich: "Overemphasis on Superheroes - true, but there are other options, they just don't sell as well."
Gee, I managed to outsell Bat Books, SuperBooks, Spider-Books, and X-Books all across the boards with BONE, STRANGERS IN PARADISE, WANDERING STAR, HELLBOY, JOHN BYRNE'S NEXT MEN, SIN CITY, and variety of other indie titles throughout the early to mid 90s. So I find that logic to be flawed, to be polite about it.
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Chris: "I also agree that superheroes hold a ridiculous share of the market. Do we really need all the various spinoffs and miniseries and C-list characters getting their own books?"
It's the only way the Big Two know to keep alternative content off the market. And Marvel and DC do not want to be legitimate publishers. They are media property companies, and unless you want to sell your creation outright to them, they'd prefer you just went away, and they sure as hell are going to do everything in their power to make sure you can't get any significant showing in any market.
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Jim:
" If these are true problems, the market will correct them, rest assured."
People have been trying to fix them for the past FORTY YEARS. Individual creators like Will Eisner, Neal Adams, Jim Steranko, Barry Windsor-Smith. Just to name a few. But unfortunately, the creative community has never managed as a collective to put personal agenda and ego aside for the betterment of the industry for all. I've been to many meetings of creators who were there to form such collectives, and watched them turn into verbal spats and fistfights over the most petty shit. "My book should be out before yours! I'm "better / more popular" than you, so you have to wait until my book's out before you can have yours out." I shit you not, that's the kind of pettiness there is in this industry, and anytime anyone with a brain steps forward to try and rein in the egos and set up a structure that works for everyone, people get p.o.ed and bitch that they're being 'dictated to' and walk out.
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Pop! goes the icon:
"Comic books are just that -- BOOKS."
"Comic books" today are cheapassed incomplete pamphlet chapfic. GRAPHIC NOVELS are BOOKS.
I'm all for the monthlies - done in the proper format and content amount. Marvel and DC have no interest in doing that, though. They haven't since DC was doing 80 page giants in the early 1970s.
And it's not like the creators haven't told their employers to let them do collection formats. It's just not in Marvel or DC's interests to do it, in their mind's eye, because if they do that, that means fewer titles of theirs on the shelves, which means an opening for their competition, which they can't allow. They have to flood the market.
And the Big Two are really the only companies that can run that particular business. Nobody else has that much property content. Well, maybe Disney. But I doubt even with the new Disney comic company being developed, that they'd go that route.
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jaimison: "I read a marketing industry article (like a lone voice in the wilderness) pointing out that a large portion of internet marketing goes ignored while print advertising is still performing fairly well. That information leads me to believe that comics should be doing pretty well right now, however I do think that the industry has failed to make what it does accessable to new audiences."
Print advertising does well, but it's dependent upon a number of factors, none of which comics really meets right now. Which is one of the reasons why you're not seeing a whole lot of outside advertising in comics. You seldom see any legitimate number of print ads in comics anymore. It 'disrupts the flow of the story narrative', don't'cha know? (Funny, ads never bothered me a damn bit in my pre 1990s comics, and it doesn't really bother me when I buy back issues, either. If I want to look at the ad, I will, if not, I move on to the next page of the story. Get a clue, publishers.)
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"Delays are inexcuseable. In the old days, writers had a stack of backup scripts handy for the event they fell behind. And there's no reason a MINI SERIES should be released before the second to last issue has gone to art and the last is already scripted."
It's usually the artists who lag, not the writers. But either way, there's no reason to even do miniseries. Just do the damn thing straight to trade. Then you can have the whole thing in house before your solicit, and so barring any printer issues, you'll ship on time.
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Wolverine: "As we head towards the paperless society we're supposedly already in, comics really should consider a new medium. They've already begun slowly working their way into digital media, but a lot of people like something tangible and are thus resistant to that. Mayhaps if they invented a paper-thin computer-like thing where comics could be uploaded, accessed and displayed on the fly. Someone call Bill Gates and get him on that."
Again, you're talking about making comics for the priviledged. Why should comics go digital? Oh yes, people say it's cheaper. It's also strictly for those who own computers and have access. Only for the people who will have that Palm Comics Reader or whatever tech they create. Or whomever can pay for the download.
Many of these "free" online comics could go POD, or do B&W print very cheaply and make themselves available to the general public, if they so chose. They just don't want to make the effort. Why the hell should the general public be forced to buy technology to access it?
This is just poor business thinking, trying to create an even tinier niche in a market that's too small and can't support itself properly as it is.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Finally some people are getting it!
ReplyDeleteOr maybe they have been all along and I'm just too dense to have noticed.
Sure there are caveats, but those are all great points.
"People have been trying to fix them for the past FORTY YEARS. Individual creators like Will Eisner, Neal Adams, Jim Steranko, Barry Windsor-Smith. Just to name a few. But unfortunately, the creative community has never managed as a collective to put personal agenda and ego aside for the betterment of the industry for all."
ReplyDeleteI see what you mean, but my point when I said "the market will correct it" was that, if these things are actually "problems" with the American comic book, then you'll know because people will stop buying the American comic book, which will hence destroy an industry that, if it has so many "problems," deserves to be destroyed. Something better will then rise from the ashes. It's all in the invisible hand of the market and the consumers/wallets that make up that market.
Like I said, despite all the "Amen!"s that make it sound like this is the first time anyone has tacked these theses to the door, I feel like I have heard these five complaints many, many, many times, and yet here we all still are. I'm not even saying the complaints aren't valid; I guess I'm saying "let's all follow our own advice and move on." Don't you get tired of talking about what's wrong? That sounds like work to me, not a hobby.
Yeah, but the market has spoken. The numbers of people buying mainstream comics has declined dramatically and in all likelihood will continue. Maybe most people you know or interact with buy comics, but the bitter truth is...
ReplyDeleteMost people in general don't. And wouldn't if you kept foisting books on them for free in order to try to hook them.
People talk about "the market" in mainstream comic book terms as if it's this giant mass of healthiness, like we're talking about McDonald's or television where the potential customer base is demographically broad and involves all members of society when in fact it's a shrinking number of diehards addicted to an increasingly fringe medium. In fact, it hardly seems like superhero comics are competing with other entertainment choices at all... just with each other, drawing from the same shrinking pool of readers.
Something sells 100,000 copies and comic people are all, "Wow! What a mammoth hit!" But all that happened is the 100,000 people who always buy comics that day added it to their list. It's not like some movie opening where vast numbers of people looking for entertainment said, "Hey, there's a new comic out today. Let's take the family down to the comic shop and buy it."
And these five problems are but 5 of the reasons... there are many others. But THESE 5 can be fixed without much trouble at all. Some of the others are intrinsic to the medium, but we can find those kinds of things in almost any form of entertainment.
But the ease with which these 5 can be fixed versus the immense cost to the industry they entail- as it pursues the same hardcore crowd with the same pandering tactics that alienate practically everyone else- is why they bear repeating and "Amening" whenever they appear.
And by all means, they should be accompanied by some cheerleading for the things the industry is doing right.
But to my mind, the things that are right are increasingly difficult to find in mainstream output. There's a smattering of decent titles but I don't see any reason to buy 20 books on a Wednesday... or even 5 books.
Small press and indie stuff- which are outside the scope of the "5 Problem Discussion" are where the positives are at these days. When I put my effort into preaching the faith, those are the ones I talk up.
Or... perish the thought... Japanese comics. I got a totally non-comic reading fan hooked on Nana. That's a NEW comic reader. He's not going for Infinite Crisis of the Secret Civil War versus the Hulk and Amazons. That crap turns him right off as much as it does everyone else out there.
Gross attempts to duplicate Michael Bay storytelling, without the Michael Bay grosses trumped by a solid, interesting, character-driven comic.
Although I acknowledge that the reader/publisher relationship has become some sick cyclical symbiosis, at the end of the day I feel that the responsibility lies squarely on the consumer. The publishers are only giving us what they think we want. And why do they think we want it? Sales. This is not news.
ReplyDeleteMany of us have been reading comics for 5 years or more. We're not n00bs, people. By now we should know how to avoid reading stuff we don't want to read. It's just a matter of making the decision.
A brief detour that may or may not go somewhere: My dad will not take responsibility for his diet. Whatever my mom makes, he eats it, even though he knows he's supposed to be eating healthy. She tries to make something healthy every night, but sometimes she's too tired and they eat pizza or Chinese. In other words, he chooses to let someone else handle his food, and that way if he has weight problems it's not his fault--it's the fault of whoever feeds him. And that is just ridiculous.
DC and Marvel are not responsible for what we end up buying and reading. If crossovers are too high in calories, then skip it and read something else. Something lighter and more healthy. We have to take care of ourselves.
Continuity is why I enjoy comics to be honest...
ReplyDelete