Here's an excerpt of a Dave Sim letter that has been making the rounds, wherein he specifies that anyone who desires to interview him must sign a document acknowledging that he is not a misogynist:
"As you may or may not be aware, I've been called a misogynist for over a decade now. Several times I have tried to make the point that nobody stands up for me when this happens. Increasingly it has become obvious that standing up for someone else is an alien concept. Considering that a misogynist is viewed as the lowest, subhuman form of life in our society, however, this situation became untenable some time ago: something had to give..."
and
"If you want a response to your letter or submission all you have to do is return this form letter stating for the record (and I reserve the right to post your name on the Internet under the heading) "I don't believe that Dave Sim is a misogynist.""
For the record, I will restate my position that until never-talked-about-in-public misogynists in this industry are also publicly called to the carpet, I have no interest even considering jumping on the "Dave Sim is a misogynist" bandwagon. It's easy to brand Sim a kook and a woman-hater, because he's not connected with other people's livelihoods or wields a level of influence that could damage other people's careers. The worst you could do by bashing Sim is make Neil Gaiman sigh at you.
I mean -- the Sim critics have won. He's driven to the point where he has to issue letters like this. Is he ever going to change his opinions because people attack him on message boards? Probably not. But, he's actually felt so persecuted that he went through the trouble of drafting this odd document. So in that, I sense a victory for the anti-Sims.
Okay, now that this has happened, how has this industry concretely changed to benefit women? At least the furor over that Open Source Boob Project Guy resulted in more awareness of the way females are occasionally physically accosted at conventions.
What positive thing comes out of all this? Is it possible to have anything constructive or positive come out of all this? The only effect I see it having is convincing those selective misogynists in the industry to become even more selective and covert, seeing Sim as the example of somebody who got publicly crucified. Then they can step back and laugh at Sim along with the crowd.
original Dave Sim letter scan available at Ink Studs.
"It's easy to brand Sim a kook and a woman-hater, because he's not connected with other people's livelihoods or wields a level of influence that could damage other people's careers."
ReplyDeleteWhile that's true today, it wasn't really true when his feeling about women first became known in the last chapter of Cerebus: Reads.
For one thing, he was spearheading the self-publishing movement. A lot of artists had associated themselves with Sim as a way of promoting their works (Jeff Smith, Colleen Doran, Martin Wagner, Teri Wood, etc). It's one thing to be associated with the man who wrote Jaka's Story, a book that's "women-friendly". It's another thing to be associated with the guy who called all women "the Void".
For another thing, a lot of retailers championed his product and may have been stuck with a lot of it after Reads. One of the selling points about Cerebus at the time was that it was a comic you could give to both men and women. That wasn't so true after Reads.
I've still bought Sim's works after Reads; his work is still compelling and interesting. I just don't agree with him about his feelings about half the people on the planet.
Um....people have called him a misogynist for over a decade...'cause he is one? Anyhow, I do think that Sim is an easy target, & one that lets people go "so what if the only girls in Iron Man were secretaries, at least Iron Man wasn't screaming about the Void of The Vagina or whatever."
ReplyDelete"at least Iron Man wasn't screaming about the Void of The Vagina or whatever."
ReplyDeleteYou just spoiled the sequel.
This seems like Sim's response to Gail Simone's efforts when he was on his digital promotional tour.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that over the last couple of days I've read Glamourpuss #1, some of his inflammatory comments about women, some of the back history of his conflicts with Friends of Lulu, the previews of his Judenhass project, and just some background on the person in general.
ReplyDeleteIt is such a bunch of contradictions, etc, that I'm not qualified to parse it.
I don't know about him being an actual misogynist, but David Sims has always been completely blooming insane and not in the good Alan Moore or pre-90s Miller (Exception made for -some- of Sin City) way.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the picture supposed to be? I can't get it to show up readable size on my screen.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it needs parsing: he says one thing, & when called on it he...pretends it is YOUR fault for "misunderstanding" him. Hey, all he said was that women were a Void, & men the Light. But he only meant it creatively, like, men can be creative but women just take & take & take! Wait, don't put words in his mouth, he doesn't hate women he hates the Liberal Homo-feminist Axis! No, he doesn't hate anyone, he just wants women to stop being brainwashed with these promises of equality! Women can be equal at home, having babies & being a housewife. That is what they are meant for!
ReplyDeleteI do think Dave Sim is a smart guy, & from all I hear a nice guy. Okay? & I sure like Cerebus a lot. His opinions on the ladies though...yikes.
I suggest you also follow-up on Sim's claims he intentionally mislead independent publishers in the name of acceptable sacrifice to promote a different comics industry.
ReplyDeleteAs wishlish said, Dave Sim is not an example of a crank who nobody cares about, he is an example of a man marginalized by his own bigoted views. The Sim who exists now is what we should all hopes becomes of cowards who hide vile philosophy behind claims pf being an intellectual, betray their friends both publicly and privately, and uses people as they see fit.
He looks powerless, because for once, someone got what he deserved.
Perhaps calling Dave Sim a misogynist hasn't made our world a finer one. But then calling an aardvark an aardvark doesn't improve anything either. You just call it that because that's what it is.
ReplyDelete"What positive thing comes out of all this? Is it possible to have anything constructive or positive come out of all this? The only effect I see it having is convincing those selective misogynists in the industry to become even more selective and covert, seeing Sim as the example of somebody who got publicly crucified."
ReplyDeleteWhile this may be true, I do feel that doesn't negate the value of the effort. Mainstream politicians long ago realized that they can't expose their bigotry publicly, but that doesn't mean that some idiot can't talk about the anomaly of a "clean" and "articulate" black man.
It's a step in the right direction, but it's just a step.
I met Dave Sim at a Toronto Comic Con back in the early 80's. I think only 10 or 11 issues of Cerebus had been published. I was waiting for a chance to meet Neal Adams. Mr Adams was selling sketches.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather spend my money on comics and I noticed this bearded guy sitting at a table with comics lieing out in front of him. I asked him what they were about? He asked "what do you read?" At the time I liked Marvel and "Bat" books. Dave said, "this isn't Marvel but if you like Conan you might like this". I spent a few more minutes with him and chatted about comics and the industry and he seemd like a "nice"
guy.
So I picked up the first five issues of Cerebus and when I got home I'd seen that Dave had autographed issue number 1 writing, "To Michael - hope you like this better than Marvel"...
I picked up some later books in the Cerebus "life" and didn't "get em"...
I heard rumours of the stuff that happened to Dave over the last 25 years...
I prefer to remember him as the "nice" guy who signed my first issue of Cerebus...
ArrOOoo!
As you may or may not be aware, I've been called a misogynist for over a decade now. Several times I have tried to make the point that nobody stands up for me when this happens. Increasingly it has become obvious that standing up for someone else is an alien concept.
ReplyDeleteHmm. I think I can safely say that I have stood up for people who I think were wrongly called misogynists or even too quickly called misogynists, and I've taken some grief for it. However ...
Dave Sim is a misogynist!
The only effect I see it having is convincing those selective misogynists in the industry to become even more selective and covert, seeing Sim as the example of somebody who got publicly crucified.
Maybe but what's the other option? To not say anything when he rants about women?
I don't think that Sims gets more flack than other comics creators because he's a "safe" target, I think he gets more flack because he's an "obvious" target. Let's face it, to a total industry outsider like myself, a lot of the sexism and misogyny of the industry is invisible. Readers might notice things like overly sexualized female costuming, bondage sequences, and the like, but it's difficult to distinguish individual sexism from institutionalized sexism, and so a lot of creators slide under the radar.
ReplyDeleteBut Sim has very publicly for the last decade-plus talked about his views on women, and continues to do so. He's made it clear that no, he's not just part of an industry that has a bias against women, he personally and specifically thinks that women drain away men's creative forces and trap them with their women-parts into becoming less powerful and meaningful people.
It's really hard not to say something against that, honestly. Would I love to see more people called on their sexist and misogynist attitudes? Of course I would. But that's an entirely different issue from that of whether to say, "Enough's enough" about Dave Sim.
(Which, I'll admit, part of me does want to say that, because I think he's got some mental problems and I don't think that anyone is ever going to get through to him on this issue. Anyone who decides that the response to claims he's misogynist is to force journalists to sign a piece of paper saying he's not is clearly not playing with a full deck.
(On the other hand, on some levels it's not about convincing him, but making sure he doesn't convince anyone else. You stand up to people like that in the hopes that other people will see it, not necessarily because you think they can change.)
John, my point is that Dave is an easy person for people to publicly criticize and hound. It's easier to crucify the kooks outside your own circle and business. I would argue that Sim is less a threat to women specifically because his opinions are out on the table. It is those who work within the "system," who know better than to put their misogynistic views in writing or to speak of them outside their circle of influence and power, who are far more in a position to be a danger to women.
ReplyDeleteWell, I know lots of nice and creative folks with ideas that are considered crackpot to the mainstream, as well as points of view that I out and out dismiss. I thought Glamourpuss and Judenhass were both excellent and I devote a portion of my work life to covering graphic works that I find excellent. Sadly, life is all gray and some people with questionable opinions do some great work and some people with likable opinions do some crappy work — and everything in between.
ReplyDeleteOn one hand, yeah, he's a scapegoat, but on the other, he makes his opinions public and this is what happens when you do that. I think the misogynist thing is less him being whiny than just trying to level the playing field and get some coverage that focuses on his actual work in the present. I've not found him one to shy away from debate on his opinions and deal with his burden. The letter strikes me as motivated by the business side of his brain.
I might add that as a professional journalist who Dave has agreed to be interviewed by - via fax - I wouldn't sign any such paper, nor would I plan on referring to him as a misogynist in any article I wrote. It's not something I would deal with from mayors or rock stars or anyone else, nor would any other journalists I know.
ReplyDelete