You gotta be f**king kidding me. This is a parody, right?
Let the creator of the "Open Source Boob Project" explain in his own words:
"At Penguicon, we had buttons to give away. There were two small buttons, one for each camp: A green button that said, "YES, you may" and a red button that said "NO, you may not." And anyone who had those buttons on, whether you knew them or not, was someone you could approach and ask:
"Excuse me, but may I touch your breasts?"
And if you weren't a total lout - the women retained their right to say no, of course - they would push their chests out, and you would be allowed into the sanctity of it. That exchange of happiness where one person are told with gropes and touches that they are desirable and the other is someone who's allowed to desire.
For a moment, everything that was awkward about high school would fade away and you could just say what was on your mind. It was as though parts of me were being healed whenever I did it, and I touched at least fifteen sets of boobs at Penguicon. It never got old, surprisingly.
Some women didn't want to. That was fine. We never demanded anything of anyone. And if you didn't want to put yours up for the Project but you wanted to touch, well, that was fine, too. It was simply for folks who felt like being open.
It was a raging success at Penguicon.... And there haven't been any hookups that I know of thanks to the Open-Source Boob Project. It is, as I said, a very special thing. (Though I wouldn't rule it out if two single people exchanged a moment.) And we'll probably do it at other cons, because it's strangely wholesome and sexual at the same time.
I've left off the names, because frankly, people should reveal for themselves whether they're Open-Sourcers or not. Not everyone wants to go public with it, and what happens at the con stays at the con. But trust me. If you are, and I meet you, I will ask. And you'll understand the beauty and simplicity of the Open-Source Boob Project for yourself.
Touch the magic, my friends. Touch the magic."
This isn't worth me scrambling to find the facepalm meme photos to attach to this.
I think if people want to have adult-themed comic book or sci-fi conventions where this sort of behavior is agreed-to upon before people even buy the ticket, that's fine. If there is such a driving need among some people to have sexual situations at a con, to fully "liberate oneself," great -- create a separate con for that. Then "consenting adults" can purchase a few fanzines, cop a feel, and call it a day.
But not at a regular convention. It's not okay to ask women wearing tank-tops on crowded subway trains during the summertime if their boobs can be grabbed or not -- what makes it okay at a sci-fi or comic convention? Should they wear red or green buttons too?
There are some arguments that the original poster was really just making a harmless intellectual point, and that he is not the "enemy." That's fine. I'm not even worried about him, per se.
What I am worried about guys who hear the following words:
"grope"
"boobs"
"convention"
"permission"
"asking for it"
and do their own screwed-up math on the subject and do something stupid.
That's why you can't have this stuff going on at a convention, "consenting adults" or no. It creates an environment with the potential for abuse.
Go create a Sex-Con and touch consenting boobies. And if your life is such that the only way to release your sexual urges is at a science-fiction convention -- you need to reevaluate. You need to get more venues in your social life.
Related reading:
The Open Source Swift Kick In The Balls Project
I think my original comment should stand as my end opinion on the matter-- I want to go to his party, & ask all the gentlemen there "can I punch you in the face? It isn't even that I know you. Nor am I curious about your personality. I just can't stand the sight of your face & want to knock it off. Can I punch you in the face?"
ReplyDeleteThe "May I kick you in the balls" riposte was magnificently hilarious. AND completely appropriate for such a mind-numbingly stupid idea as grabbing women's breasts. There were fifteen PAGES of responses by the time that I read it, and all approved of the idea.
ReplyDeleteSo even a woman with the words, "No, you may not" on her chest in letters on a red button can get asked?
ReplyDeleteNice to know that even that direct and blatant way of denying access still means people can ask and expect to get what they want.
I also read on there that at some point, a girl walked up to ask, "Are my boobs good enough to be touched?" and that just makes me want to weep angry tears.
So much for fighting the stereotype of sci-fi fans being gross, socially awkward, and unable to get laid through their own volition.
ReplyDeleteGood work, guy!
The thing that eally sickens me is all the people trying to justify him. He's not a sleaze, really, he just made a social mistake. Sure, until one starts reading his old posts, and realizes he sells himself as the one man who really gets woman and the one who will come and save us for poor us we.
ReplyDeleteAlso? I've been following this since the beginning, and now there are reports of women who were wearing the red buttons and still got groped. Gah.
However, one good thing came from this, the Woman back each other up project, which I don't have the link right now, but I'll put it here when I find it.
My anger on this issue is overflowing,a nd filled with naughty language. I've said almost everything I can say on this topic over on my blog. Take a look if you like.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to scream and rant here in your lovely home.
I think we need a group -- May I make fun of your tiny penis.
ReplyDeleteI have seen this thing make the rounds of the Internet and have been resisiting commenting on it. But since you commented on it, I'll comment on your comment.
ReplyDelete(And I apologize for the crudeness of this response.)
My read on this guy is that he doesn't have the social acumen to get himself a girlfriend--and the unlimited boob touching that entails--and has stumbled upon some sexually liberated and/or emotionally insecure women who have let him touch their breasts simply because he asks. He thinks that A)all men have the compulsive desire to touch all the breasts they see and B)a lot of women don't mind their boobs being touched. He is wrong on both levels.
This whole manifesto has smarm dripping off it. "It's a beatuiful thing" sounds like something a 70s swinger would say in a lame comedy film from that decade. Like, the reason these guys are touching boobs are because of some spiritual reason and not because they are getting off on it. No, I don't think so.
And this guy's whole post sounds like coercion(sic) to me. Like he's trying to convince women (and probably himself)that men touching their breasts are "wholesome" and "healing". This reeks of bulls#@t. Pity anybody who can't see that.
But that being said, will this lead to horny fanboys randomly groping women at cons? I don't think so. Like I said, not every man is the raging horndog that this d-bag is. Not every man has that lack of respect for women.
And women just won't stand for being groped. Pity anyone who tries this with my wife. When she was in college in Spain, a kid groped her in the street. She chased him 14 blocks before he got away. I hate to think what would have happened if she caught him. She might still be in jail. Several times of being beat up by the gropee will learn any deviant that they should think twice about ever groping again.
Could some of these people be inspired by this idiot's Open Boob Project example? Yes, I guess so. Will it be a wide ranging epidemic? I don't think so.
But if any woman does get groped, remember. a kick to the groin is an excellent response to any unwelcome sexual advance. Also works--a rake to the eyes with your keys or fingernails, a palm strike to the nose, even a punch to the neck. I'm sure your groper will thing these tactics a bit extreme, but, then again, they shouldn't be touching your breasts in the first place.
that's disgusting.
ReplyDeletei bet if this same guy saw two men kissing he'd say how "inappropriate" it was
WHAT....the @#!@%$#%????
ReplyDeleteYes, this is why comic book fans are viewed as losers with no social skills.
Lord.
I will speak from experience and say that there is an unique skeevy feeling that comes from just the unwanted sexual inquiries like "can I touch your breasts" alone -- much less actually being groped.
ReplyDeleteI overheard some friends talking about how skeeved they are by the thought of cockroaches walking on their skin. That is the sensation I would ascribe to this situation. It feels like cockroaches walking on your skin. Sure, the roaches aren't going to kill you -- but it still makes you feel unclean and grossed out.
I loved this response to the Swift Kick in the Balls Project:
ReplyDelete"I'd have to say that any man who would object to this or think it evil just doesn't understand his own body and is ashamed of his sexuality. *snrk*"
Of course this all skeeves me out, but once you get past all of the innapropriate victimization, as a male consumer of comics, sci-fi, and the like there is one part that gets to me, and that was the fourth paragraph, the one about "making up for high school".
ReplyDeletePlease, dude nerds, can we get over this "I Love You Beth Cooper/ Fanboy and Goth Girl" BS? Take ownership of who we are, and instead of acting like creeps with our tongues hanging out, approach women who are interested in the same things we are and talk to them about it?
I mean, hell, the hard work is already done, she'll accept your love of all things nerdy.
But hey, then you have to cut your hair, maybe use some Oxy, wear something other than a Venom T-Shirt. And as an aside to The Ferret, judging from that picture, you think Vince Vaughn was the hero of Swingers. He wasn't. He was a schmuck. I guess, kind of like the Ferret.
Bryan
It's the "If we're open and up-front about being sleaze, then it's okay" school of thought, and it's really gross.
ReplyDeleteAs for the separate conventions, all I'd suggest is not doing them at the same time and the same city as the regular ones. I had a very disturbing experience at my one and only trip to San Diego Comicon years ago. I was wearing bunny ears and tail as part of a costume for a character in my friends' comic, and I was hanging out at their table and working hard at that of another friend. It was fun, and it was flattering that lots of the women and girls in attendance wanted a picture with me (I fancied myself a "Booth Buff" without the strain of being at all attractive).
Anyway, on the second day of the show a guy started talking to me, asking me who I was supposed to be and such when he started telling me I should come over to the other convention, too. "What other convention," I asked innocently. He then went on to explain about furries and then showed me the CD-ROMs of animated furries that he was selling, and then asked me when I got "into" dressing up like a bunny, etc. I told him that he really needed to leave, like now.
I couldn't tell you how creeped out I was. I'm hardly a prude, but it was very disturbing that this guy was pushing sexualized anthropomorphic animals at me in the "common" area of Comicon. I shudder when I think that he might have been doing the same with some of the younger people there.
Fleh...
ReplyDeleteThis is why I avoid interacting with the larger comics/sci-fi fanbase as much as possible. Because weird lecherous stuff like this tends to crop up. A lot. I- I just don't understand it.
Growing up in Tulsa we had a local comics convention every year. It was run by a really nice guy who did a good job organizing the show and events. But man, go into those dealer boothes... and about every third booth had some sort of porn they were selling. no one selling porn exclusively mind you, but a third of the booths had boxes full of playboys, penthouses and others. And even at fifteen I remember thinking to myself "Why are these here?" And I still don't know the answer. When did porn at at a COMICS convention become a "normal" and accepted thing? Why have these two incongruous things been saddled together?
As far as I can tell porn has as much to do with comics as it does with baseball. Yet when I go to a Yankees game it's not as if there is porn in the back pages of the program. And I can guarantee you that none of this Open Source BS would ever happen at Yankee Stadium. And it's not like Yankees fans are full of restraint and respect for everyone around them... we are some obnoxious drunken bastards. But somehow even the Bleacher Creature on his eighth beer manages to avoid these lecherous depths.
And you know what Val, you're right about creating an unsafe environment. Even if this guy had the most innocent and sincere of intentions... situations like this can spiral out incredibly quick. Everyone remember the New York Puerto Rican Day Parade in 2000? And something tells me that the security in the smaller and mid size cons would just not be equipped to handle something like that.
So I tend to stay out of the larger comics community. Frankly I can enjoy my comics just fine without these slobbering pervs.
I really don't want to have to pull my wife off some dumbass in a Stormtrooper outfit at a con this year (or vice versa) because of this crap. The whole idea is sad, pathetic, and gross. Even the idea of someone asking a woman such a thing is repulsive. I'm not a violent person, but I will Hulk out on any jerk that attempts this on anyone I know.
ReplyDeleteJust a thought, wouldn't this guy have realized by now that when he asks a woman "May I touch your breasts?" that the correct response is "May I kick you in the testicles?".
ReplyDeleteP.S I know that this has been said before, I just figured that it need to be put a bit more bluntly.
some days i find it harder than others not to buy that wood chipper to toss people like this through.
ReplyDeletehow is this even remotely ok???
to echo martha thomases a bit, maybe green buttons with the phrase "sorry about your penis size" would be the apt protest, but unfortunately i am sure this would only invite "do you want to see it" comments.
Anyone who's actually been involved in sf fandom should not be at all surprised by this. More on my blog (scroll down to the fifth bullet point).
ReplyDeleteSo, I got kind of lost in all of the outrage and such. I am right when I think the problem here isn't, say, that guys want to touch boobs, but instead with the proposal being outside anything remotely resembling appropriate context for boob-touching?
ReplyDeleteA problem with the kick to the testicles thing: some dudes might think it's a fair trade (dare I even venture that for some such a scenario is wholly in the profit column?). You get a nerd with thunderous thighs, and kicking him in the junk might just be a difficult proposition.
Val - This is a joke. I worked Saturday at the 2008 Penguicon in the Detroit suburbs and nothing of this sort was in evidence. Granted we were there on day two of three, but given the amount of convention we covered and the number of male attendees, we would have heard something.
ReplyDeleteThe most unusual thing at the con was the security staff was outfitted in black utilikilts.
William Gatevackes: Ferrett is married.
ReplyDeleteAs I said at The Beat...
You can find my take on this phenomenon here.
I actually know one of the women who participated. She wore a red button.
I have a sneaking suspicion that had she, or Ferrett’s wife, been the person to post about it, we’d be having an entirely different discussion. Or none at all.
Oh dear Lord.
ReplyDeleteWhen I'd first heard about this I was convinced it was a joke. No way would anyone actually be serious about this sort of thing in any reality I choose to consent to. But now hearing all this, while it disgusts me, it doesn't really surprise me that such assinine antics would crop up in the fan community.
Speaking as a male (the name was a nod to actor Stacy Keach), I have nothing but deepest respect and fond feeling for the women in the fan community. It's got to be hard for anyone to be the minority amidst the minority and to be amongst people whose social skills. . .well, to say they can vary would be generous.
I've been to Dragon*Con a couple of times, and with some friends of the feminine persuasion who chose to attend in costume. Like everyone there, I was having a good time and enjoying the Multiversal coolness that is Dragon*Con, when my friends clued me in to something. Something that couldn't be unseen once I had seen it.
My friends related how they'd been followed up the stairs by an individual with a camera who had been attempting to get a shot up their skirts. Heavyset, definitely an asperger syndrome case, and most definitely a skeezy individual.
It was a pattern I noticed with the female cosplayers; there'd always be a couple guys snapping pics from--shall we say--creative angles. And that's not cool in the least.
I can appreciate a gal who chooses to dress as Dawn or Power Girl as much as the next red-blooded fanboy, but apply common sense whenever possible. Just because someone is dressed a certain way does not imply you treat them a certain way. I remember back in the day when the very notion of girls actually liking things like comics or Star Wars was inconcievable. Since joining the Star Wars FanForce I have met women who not only like this stuff, but love it, and are proud in declaring their alleigance. We should be encouraging as many women as possible to come on into the community and share the fun, not creep them out to the extent they flee never to return.
This whole thing has 'CREEPY' written all over it in 2 foot letters of flame.
It makes women uncomfortable and less likely to come out and socialize with male fans, it makes men at large look bad and tarred with a creepy stalker brush, and it makes an environment which should be about enjoyment of our own particular piece of pop culture into one of discomfort. And if you're not having fun, what's the point?
Stacy
Sooooo . . . that's a "no," then?
ReplyDeleteWilliam Gatevackes: Ferrett is married.
ReplyDeleteOh, sorry. I take back everything I said! OSBP is A ok!.
Um, on second thought, no it's not.
Yeah, I found out that theferret married in further perusal of his livejournal. I posted a correction that blogger ate.
That doesn't change the fact that his post and idea he promotes still seems smarmy. If anything, it makes it seem more smarmy by uping the kink level.
Hey, it's great that he has a group of female friends that will let him, if not encourage him, to touch their breasts. It's great his wife is okay with that. And it's okay if you think that it is a "wonderful thing". But the thing is, not every woman feels the same way.
If theferrett kept this little game to himself and his circle of friends, there would be no problem. But women feel legitimately threatened. And the fact that a woman came up with the OSBP does nothing to change this. And it shouldn't.
For more of my take on this, if the link works, click here
I don't understand. I think life creates many acceptable venues for consensual boob groping so I don't see the need for this rather pathetic version with buttons and frippery and whatnot.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's fun for a certain group of... shall we say... romantically undernourished and/or childish people to attempt to create one at their little comic book parties. I don't know.
I don't WANT to know.
After reading you blog for a while, I'd have thought you'd be above perpetuating this sort of lynch-mob mentality, Valerie.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the guy was quite clear that this thing would be between consensual adults. And secondly, he recanted the idea and apologized for it once how bad of an idea it was became obvious to him.
Yes, it was a pathetic idea, but not nearly as pathetic as the continued crucification of the guy for making a stupid suggestion.
What I'm saying is that you and your readers have found a justification to be little better than Mao's Red Guards and have leapt at it with abandon.
And this sort of Stalinist style groupthink is why fandom is, and always will be, seen as a group of pathetic human beings by the mundane world.
You all disgust me. This blog is off my reading list
This asshole just set geekdom back about 20 years. If this guy would ever ask any of my female friends that, he'd not only hafta worry about what THEY'D do to him, but what I would do to what's left over.
ReplyDeleteThe best response by the oft-hilarious ed champion.
ReplyDeleteI have some friends and acquaintances in fandom that I think of as 'idea men'.
ReplyDeletePeople who are constantly coming up with ideas, but apparently are unable to determine when an idea is unfeasible or just plain silly.
I have come to the conclusion that these guys need someone standing behind them to tell them which ideas shuld be immediately discarded.
Sometimes the person in the back should be carrying a huge mallet.
"And this sort of Stalinist style groupthink is why fandom is, and always will be, seen as a group of pathetic human beings by the mundane world."
ReplyDeleteI thought fandom was seen by the mundane world as a group of pathetic human beings because of things like the advocacy of a color-coded system of grabbing boobs at conventions.
Oh, but it was really our "Stalinist groupthink" that did it. Thanks for clearing that up.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis goes on the long list of things that will be itemized in my suicide note someday.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually really frustrated that the discussion is intent on focusing on the situation as it happened, rather than the dialog that has opened up because of it.
ReplyDeleteThere have been a lot of ad hominem attacks thrown at The Ferrett and his wife and their friends, and that's not okay.
I love that we're calling creeps out on their behavior, but that's not what happened here.
Can we please get past "This sweaty nerd who wrote that awful post wants to touch me"? Because that's not what it was at all, and it's muddling the discourse.
"And even at fifteen I remember thinking to myself "Why are these here?" And I still don't know the answer. When did porn at at a COMICS convention become a "normal" and accepted thing? Why have these two incongruous things been saddled together?"
ReplyDeleteThere's cartoons and comics in Playboy?
"And this sort of Stalinist style groupthink is why fandom is, and always will be, seen as a group of pathetic human beings by the mundane world."
ReplyDeleteI find this comment to be quite hilarious, given that Valerie's solution is actually quite libertarian:
"I think if people want to have adult-themed comic book or sci-fi conventions where this sort of behavior is agreed-to upon before people even buy the ticket, that's fine."
~chris
What's the big deal with boobs anyway? They're just mounds of fat. Sure, during intercourse it's a different thing entirely to caress a woman's breast.
ReplyDeleteBut is there really a need to grope a boob while waiting in line for a sketch or whatever?
Is the unspoken hope that boob groping will somehow lead to sex on the con floor? I don't understand.
What a fucking stupid idea.
I'm genuinely surprised that nobody has mentioned how the press would handle this story (and they would find out. This is GOLD to a news producer.).
ReplyDeleteHow long would it really be before the popular conception of comic readers shifts from Simpsons' Comic Book Guy to sketchy guy in a raincoat?
This isn't a lynch-mob. This is common sense. As much as comic fans want to believe otherwise, the perception of comics being for kids is still very much intact. Ask the CBLDF.
And, really, its a medium, not an age or maturity specific genre. What does anyone but the sad-sacks who support this idea have to gain by having these losers at the conventions at the cost of alienating families, women, and men like myself who find the whole idea pathetic.
Juan: Somewhere there's an anti-smut film from the 50s narrated by some famous actor person. You can probably find it somewhere on the internet.
ReplyDeleteWhat was interesting to me was one of the reasons he said porn was bad was that it embraced a "fetishist" view of sex. Including a "breast fetish".
Somehow I don't think many people think a breast fetish exists, because its widespread and common.
Hi Val :) Is it ok if I delete my comment and make a new one or something? :\ I wrote it late at night before I went to bed and realized when I woke up that I implied some things about the guy that were prolly unfair that I didn't mean to :( I hope it's ok :\
ReplyDeleteDear Red Stapler,
ReplyDeleteI am serious when I say this, but I admire you sticking up for theferrett. Correct me if I am wrong, and I'm sure you will, but I get the impression from here and your blog that you know theferrett and are friends with him. I would hope that my friends are as vigorous in my defense.
That being said,I think you should continue to be frustrated about the way this conversation is going. Because there is more cause to discuss theferret's live journal post than everyone's reaction to it here.
He wrote a post smarmily promoting (Touch the magic, my friends. Touch the magic)a project he and his friends thought up which entails touching women's breasts. He admits that there is a sexual aspect in it for him (it's strangely wholesome and sexual at the same time).
Women are uncomfortable with this be advocated in a public forum in glowing terms as to entice more members of the Open Source Boob Project.
This is not an ad hominem attack. This is a reasoned, tempered attack.
And there is a nasty undercurrent that can possibly be percieved in all of this that the women who participated in and/or came up with the OSBP are cool, with it, together, centered and in touch with their bodies and any woman who objects to this post is stuck up, has issues, or is too uptight. This is very, very dangerous. And not necessarily true.
Believe it or not, what the men and women of the OSBP are doing is outside the societal norm. If in that circle, all parties involved are okay with it, then more power to them. But that attitude does not reflect the rest of the world. So they should have understood the way this idea would be taken and understand the reasons behind the reaction to it.
Like I said in my last post. If he kept the OSBP to himself or his circle of friends, this conversation would not be happening. But theferrett put a glowing ode to the OSBP on a public message board, encouraging women to allow strangers and casual acquaintences to touch their breasts. Once that hit the internet, the way it hit the internet, it's a little hard to say "No, it's not the way theferret described it. It's not smarmy at all. Stop picking on him". Smarmy is in the eye of the beholder. And in my eye, what theferrett did was smarmy.
And I'm sorry, Val, for clogging up your blog with my diatribes.
That whole thing is SO UGH and filled with teh sketchy D: On the bright side it's spawned a lot of hilarious satires and responses! xD
ReplyDeleteAt least the original guy's since gone back on it and advocates against it now :)
Still... ugh D: And all the attempted justifications are just so.. >.>;;
Hi Ami,
ReplyDeletefeel free to do what you like :-)
Alright then. I'll talk about it.
ReplyDeleteIt's obvious theferret thought about this with his small, sheltered, little group, and it was probably insticated from a simple suggestion and excelled from there.
In that sense, it's perfectly understandable and pitiable, really, that someone would come up with this "great idea" and wish to share it with the world.
Men and boys think like this. Not everyone, but a lot do, in all honesty.
I found myself annoyed with the little sci-fi group at my college, mainly because of their socially awkward behavior (and here I'm pretending I had none), largely when they dealt with "how to act sexually appropriate."
It was a sci-fi fan club. Male dominated, and full of women who love storytelling and some such, but also flirted promiscuously - some in order to get accepted by the group, and some because it was the norm.
There were times where this naivite got everyone (the men and the women) in trouble. Times where they offended the wrong person, gave the wrong impression to the Christian group across the hall, done stupid things for male competition (fight club).
These were all men and women who'd lived sheltered most of their lives, and were adjusting to the "societal norm".
Some never got there.
That's who theferret reminds me of. It makes it very difficult for me to criticize him, really, in any real way.
I just hope he grows up from the experience.
And it appears that he did exactly that.
“If he kept the OSBP to himself or his circle of friends, this conversation would not be happening. But theferrett put a glowing ode to the OSBP on a public message board, encouraging women to allow strangers and casual acquaintences to touch their breasts.”
ReplyDeleteIt has much less to do with the fact that he posted on a public board, and much more to do with the fact that this activity took place at a convention that (correct me if I’m wrong) did not grant permission, and where other con-goers were not told that such a thing would be taking place.
~chris
At WonderCon 2008, I was at the New Frontier After Party with Nick Doan of Pray for Death eFame and his wife, Gwen.
ReplyDeleteMy shoulder was giving me crap due to a work-related injury that tendered the tendons of said shoulder. It had to be my writing arm, too.
So I sit down next to my friend and filming partner, Kroze (no, that's not his real name; it freaked Bob Wayne out or he was just facepalming, who knows).
I hear Gwen talking to this complete loser about why she reads comics. He is going on and on about how she feels she needs to read about stuff that women cannot do. Like men can do it too, but whatever. It got to a point where I wanted to get up and crack the guy over the head.
Nick came over, even though Gwen was obviously giving this shell of a human a verbal beating. The guy then asks Nick if he would fight someone trying to rape him, or run. Nick said he would run, especially if the rapist had a gun. Our fellow chauvinist didn't agree.
Long story short, he slinked away into the night as Gwen systematically blocked his cock (but not cockblocked, that would imply somethin' else).
The world is crazy.
I'm probably going to read this and be all: shit, I name-dropped the f*** out of the reply.