Look, I am in complete support of "Twilight" fans and their right to populate our nation's major comic book conventions.
But I've tried to sit through this movie and could only watch half before shutting it off. So now I've spent almost a week trying to finish this DVD so I can return it to Netflix. The DVD is now in my computer, and I'm going to force myself to finish watching it today.
I guess one of the issues I have with the movie "Twilight" is that it's really more like a TV show. I mean across the board: acting, directing, cinematography, plot, dialogue, special effects. TV show. And with the way they've already stacked up these sequels, I think that's no accident. These movie franchises are really just taking a page from the TV shows: Heroes, LOST, Battlestar Galactica, Gossip Girl.
So, it being just a long TV show, it might make sense that halfway through the movie I saw fit to shut it off. Because that's your 1 hour of TV drama.
What Robert Pattinson looks like when he isn't bullshitting us
Also, that glam look on Robert Pattinson is all wrong. It's like putting lipstick on Daniel Craig. The guy really has the look of a bruiser, like he was punched in the face; something that is only compounded by the way he mumbles his lines like Sylvester Stallone. I mean, take off the lipstick and the powder and wash that shit out of his hair. Now put him in a movie about steelworker union riots in the 1940s. See what I mean? He's no Leonardo DiCaprio. He's not even James Marsters. Marsters could rock the sexy vampire shtick well into his 40s. Pattinson is not going to be able to do this without looking like the equivalent of those over-the-hill movie actresses who just can't let the 1980s go.
Plus, the chick in this movie is indeed our generation's Karen Black:
(Plus, I had to endure a lot of naked Karen Black pics through Google Image Search to bring this post to you, most of them from way past her prime, thank you very much.)
Finally, what sort of teen narrative grants the new kid in school an entire Mystery Machine van full of BFFs within 5 minutes of touching down on the school's campus? I've never seen something like this before. Where's the conflict? Further, it's obvious that this chick is just using these new friends as something to tide her over because she really wants to hang out with the cool kids. It's made clear that she's too cool for her group, all coded as "nerds." They've opened up their hearts to her to make her feel a part of something, but she's obviously detached from them. She obviously will dump them the first chance she gets to hang out with the cool kids. And though both nerdy boys in the group hit on her, we know she is way too cool to waste one drop of saliva on their nerdy selves.
And we are supposed to be rooting for this chick, yes?
I mean, there is one scene in particular where Nerdy Guy B invites her to the prom. And she explains that she can't go with him, but that he really should invite Nerdy Friend A instead. And it's implied that Nerd should go out with Nerd. That she is way above that. Because she is so goddamned special.
So really, the narrative of this movie could be seen as being composed by an unbelievably narcissistic teenage girl who thinks she is too cool for her friends and that the world revolves around her. That one day this cute guy who is normally a dick will fall in love with her, and she will happily run off with him and all his rich, preppy, dick friends. We've all met vapid backstabbing social-climbing shits like this in high-school, haven't we?
But in the end, you really can't argue with the success of a book/movie series that has so perfectly played into the cultural zeitgeist. "Twilight" plays into the zeitgeist of teen girls who feel less threatened by the sexuality of men when these men wear more makeup than them and have hotter hair. "Twilight" plays into the aforementioned sociopathic narcissism of the teen girl who secretly feels she's too good for her nerdy friends and would betray them in a second to hang out with the cheerleaders and the jocks. And "Twilight" plays perfectly to the zeitgeist of Middle America, in ways that I'm not even going to *start* going into in this forum.
To sum up, "Twilight" the movie seems to play to the particular zeitgeist of the following teenager:
That said, I might finish this DVD today and completely change my mind. Indeed, by the time the credits roll on this flick, I might want to have Edward Cullen's blue-blooded mumbling babies. I will let you know.
To your point about Bella parachuting into an entirely friendly social group, why is it that all they do is talk about how great she is?ReplyDelete
It reminds me of the Poochie episode of the Simpsons. "Whenever Bella isn't around, all the other characters should be saying, 'Where's Bella? She's amazing. She's so very amazing and special." If the actually-sympathetic characters like her, why, then the audience must as well!
I don't think Twilight has a place at cons the same way the random Warner/Fox/CW/Lost panels don't. They roll out their latest thrillers/horrors all of which have no connection to comics. Its like going to a dentistry con and talking about what it was like to be a midwife. That may change for Twilight since they say a manga version is due to be released which doesn't surprise me, I expect the manga version to be even more questionable than the book itself.ReplyDelete
This pretty much sums up most of how I felt about it (that plus GOD DAMN IT VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE) and while we tried to listen to the book on tape once and it was MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE (agreed by the both of us) for some reason my significant other and I differed on the movie. I tired of it five minutes in, and she watched it two more times, admitting to liking it for some mind boggling reason. While I'm certainly not super manly, I'm dirty as shit with a beard and she says she doesn't think the main guy is attractive, but I think they must pull some kind of crazy "love story" card just right to hook people who normally can't resist shows like dawson's creek (sp?) - and then added vampires to hook any kids who pretend to be too "interesting" to watch dawson's creek.ReplyDelete
I dunno. I'm still going to take her to see new moon though, cause I love her, even though I'm terrified of having to sit through another one. Well, at least there is werewolves - though I'm sure I already know how that ends up what with him being somewhat dorky. Reminds me of myself when I was in high school actually, I had really long hair for no reason, because I was too cheap and preoccupied to cut it, and it seems like I didn't suddenly have washboard abs until it was short too. It's like magic.
It's because Bella is clearly a Mary Sue character meant to stand in for the author.ReplyDelete
Karen Black analogy = awesome!
I've been thinking of watching this movie myself since my gut reaction is to rip on it even though I've never read the book or seen the movie . . . now I'm not so sure. Ugh.ReplyDelete
Loved this article, though.
I could write several posts-worth of reasons why I have serious issues with the whole Twilight thing. This movie was playing on the TV where I work just the other day (some of my co-workers are SOOOO into the whole Twilight thing), and it just made me cringe when I saw Bella on the screen. Mind you, this is without me even having the audio turned up. Val, see what you think, but the actress constantly walks around with this look on her face that's almost... I hate to say this... like she's constantly wanting to have sex. Yes, I know that sounds awful, but it was really disturbing.ReplyDelete
I've not read the book, so I can only say so much as to the source material. I just know my wife couldn't even finish it when she tried. Bella just seemed like total "rescue bait." My wife and I typically prefer female characters who can fight their own battles.
For all it's faults, though, Meyers has clearly tapped into something. The question is "What exactly she has tapped into?"
I don't think it's a jock/nerd division in Twilight. It's a student council/emo-goth divide. Frankly, the class president is usually closer to the quarterback than the alpha emo.ReplyDelete
Emo is the new gay. Gay can be cool now. Emo is roundly mocked. The genius of Twilight is that it creates a world where Emo is king. No worse than Fantastic Four, where the chemistry club president gets the prom queen.
Also, it's not a real vampire story. It's clearly in the emo-XMen superhero sub-genre. We're so misunderstood! This daylight loving superteam living in a mansion has nothing to do with Dracula. It's homo superior defending h. sapien against the evil mutants. It's the Rogue-Gambit romance.
"Twilight" plays perfectly to the zeitgeist of Middle America, in ways that I'm not even going to *start* going into in this forum."ReplyDelete
Nooooo, please do!
You know, I had an interest (okay, morbid curiosity) in this movie until I read this post. It's Dawson's Creek except MORE pretentious and with an even bigger a Mary Sue complex. Now I know I must avoid this God awful teenaged tripe like the nauseating plague that it is.ReplyDelete
Thanks for the heads up.
@Ian Aleksander Adams: You brave soul. Bonus points if you go see New Moon completely sober.
It's already been decided that I need to toss back a couple of beers tonight to finish this film. Oh, that's not even a question.ReplyDelete
"Karen Black analogy = awesome!"ReplyDelete
It's the eyes. And general vapidity.
I saw the movie. I found it bland and uninspiring. It made me vaguely curious to read the book to see if it was better, but from comments here and elsewhere by those who have read the book, about how true to the book the movie was, I have not been sufficiently moved to seek it out and spend/waste time reading it.ReplyDelete
I really like the point by Gene Ha about how this isn't a vampire story, but more of a superhero romance. That's it! That explains a lot about it. I love vampire stories! The hero is a monster who often does questionable things in pursuit of whatever his personal goal is (being a good guy, advancing his people, etc.) and he is roundly hated by "good people" due to being a vampire.
In Twilight, there wasn't any of that. The hero wasn't a monster. He didn't do questionable things. He didn't even have a personal goal, as far as I could tell (decades of high school? Gah!?) And were his abilities and sparkly nature discovered, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think "vampire". Even with the fangs and drinking of animal blood. Because vampires don't sparkle. It's like whales who are accountants or wealthy CEOs who live on the street and eat at soup kitchens. It's an oxymoron in concept.
I would also be interested to hear how it ties into middle america. Now I need to go look up 'zeitgeist' to remind myself what it means.
See, I love super hero romances (I've got a soft spot for them even when they're bad, re:smallville) but I feel like I've gotten my fill of vampires after watching all of buffy and angel. It was ok because even I can tell Marsters was hot. I don't think this Edward guy can carry it either.ReplyDelete
For next years SDCC, I'm going to write 'People who complain about Twilight ruining Comic Con ruin Comic Con' on a piece of cardboard, find the guys who have Twilight Ruined Comic Con cardboard (you know they will return) and stand next to them.ReplyDelete
I hope someone takes a picture.
"I dunno. I'm still going to take her to see new moon though, cause I love her"
Going to a Chick Flick for your girl is not that big of a deal.
I could care less about Twilight and I find it amazing that for someone who doesn't like the series/movies you consistently write about it in your blog. I don't really get that when there are far better posts on this blog.ReplyDelete
"I could care less about Twilight and I find it amazing that for someone who doesn't like the series/movies you consistently write about it in your blog."ReplyDelete
Love it or hate it, "Twilight" is on the forefront of American pop-culture right now, and this is a blog concerned with pop-culture.
chick flicks I don't mind (I love a good romantic movie), horrible movies are a little harder. But I give her it in the same way she gives me generic sci fi films at times. If it's got aliens in it, I'll probably watch it, etc.ReplyDelete
Twilight seems to be something more than a chick flick and I've been having trouble really wrapping my head around why it's so exciting.
But of course it's no big deal, I'm exaggeration my situation. I've been living with her for a year and a half and I'm gonna marry the girl - a silly movie is not gonna hurt our relationship ;)
"Twilight" truly has become an inseparable part of pop-culture. Whenever I teach my intro to creative writing classes, it has to be addressed. It feels doubly overwhelming here in Utah (Meyer's home state). Though I think you have hit some of the issues with the film spot on. Though I think one other issue, is in adapting any work from a completely written medium to a visual medium is that you must rely so much on the writer's descriptions. The descriptions in the "Twilight" series are almost nonexistent. Meyer's uses lots of vague adjectives. Edward is always "beautiful", or "perfect". Since those terms are so subjective, in casting Edward there were no guidelines to go by or to set the look of either character.ReplyDelete
OH my I did a strip with the sameReplyDelete
sorry for the shameless promotion
but there isnt a way to upload pictures in the comments
The problem is that you've already been there and done that. And probably had it better from something else that you watched as a kid. Kids don't know of the older stuff that is way cooler than Twilight and they glob onto it since all their friends watch it and who doesn't want to be in the loop in high school.ReplyDelete
Twilight is hack stuff that should be on the WB next to Smallville and Supernatural and it would be fine, which is not a cut since I love Smallville.
I never got into Harry Potter and I throw it into the same pile as Twilight. I read the first Potter book and said this is shit. I've been there and done it better elsewhere. The movies are ok for a guilty pleasure if I have absoultely nothing else to do on a Friday night.
You're like me and have gotten old... but in a good way!
"Twilight is hack stuff that should be on the WB next to Smallville and Supernatural"ReplyDelete
And next year it will.
Twilight: making vampires gay one step at a time.ReplyDelete
You know Val, I think you just put your finger on the biggest dichotomy between "Twilight" and some other parts of fandom. It's that Bella doesn't want a nerd, she wants a Superman archetype (and I think Gene Ha really has a good insight there). And she gets one in Edward: chivalrous, but more importantly handsome, mysterious and cool. So nerds should be content to be nerds and date "in their class," but Bella deserves someone like Superman.ReplyDelete
However, the real irony comes that in your regular garden-variety fandom, it's the nerds that are the superheroes. Clark Kent, for one. Peter Parker, for another. Where the subtext is "I may not look like much on the outside, but if you really get to know me you'd know how special I was." Personally I think it's a good message to send, but in this context it's the language of the disenfranchied, aka a lot of people who like to read comics.
I think this may be where some of the friction between "Twilight" fans and your more garden variety fans come from. The "Twilight" fantasy is to be paired with someone cool. Other fandom's fantasies center around having someone see how cool you are despite initial appearances.
Personally, I suspect that given time most of the "Twilight" fans will be getting together at Tupperware parties, laughing at the geeks they had to put up with in order to see the "Twilight" actors.
This is one of your best posts in a long time. (Sorry if that comes out like a back-handed compliment.:)
I watched "Twilight" expecting to hate the thing, and I didn't. I went into "Twilight" accepting that it wasn't made for someone in my demographic, and still found a reasonable amount of stuff to entertain a 30+ year old Black man whose normal interests revolve around politics, Blaxploitation and 50s era adventure comic strips.
I found Kristen Stewart somewhat annoying and bland, but thought that Robert Pattinson played his part (such as it was) very well. He has a great presence onscreen, as well as being a surprisingly strong actor. Yes, despite the ridiculous baseball scene ("Thunder disguises the sound of our power-hitting!" Ugh!), I even downloaded Muse's "Supermassive Black Hole" to my iPod.
As much as I liked the sight gag of the wall of graduation caps, it still doesn't make up for the stupidity of The idea of glittery, daylight-dwelling, vampires who keep going back to high school is all kinds of dumb.
I agree with stevapalooza, more "Twilight" posts, please!
I think the real reason for the stacked up sequels is because their pretty-boy star (who I guess isn't so pretty after all) looks so YOUNG and they need him to stay looking that young to keep selling the movies. They fear (rightfully so) that when the teenage girls in the audience hit 18, they'll realize what crap this series is and won't care how good looking he is anymore. And poof, there goes the franchise.ReplyDelete
I think mentioning the way in which Edward treats Bella is only stating the obvious. I'm also uncomfortable with the tendency to think of Twilight fans as "not of the body". It just feels too much like old farts versus young turks.ReplyDelete
I'm not a fan of Twilight. I think it's horribly written. However, there are ideas in there which I believe are worth examining. It's touching upon something important, even if one's first impulse is to cringe at the collective interest.
The series has one gimmick going for it: The demon lover archetype. It harkens back to fairy tales of the Bluebeard variety. This figure has always excited the imagination, and it has I think a particular allure to the female psyche. It portrays the abusive, controling partner as exciting to those not in the know. This should not be underestimated.
The ordinary humans at school are all presented as nice, wholesome people but Bella keeps them at arm's length. She is drawn towards the superhuman over the human. People who care for you (like her father) are inconveniences to be avoided (it's only after Jacob is revealed to be superhuman that he begins to matter).
Yes, the attraction is that Edward appears powerful, mature and cool. He offers a world that appears to live up to adolescent expectations. This is a common theme in myth: The refusal of all suitors (but the supernatural one). Yes, in reality he's stuck in boy psychology. This is in no way a healthy relationship, Bella is underwater, in a supernatural adventure from which she will not emerge.
I find it ironic that a devoted Mormon wrote a series about a young woman's psychological collapse at the hands of physical and mental abuse.
That, I think is half of the unconscious appeal. Bella's adventure (descent into the depths, no return) is the real life adventure of so many females today.
The other half is the hope of changing the world by changing the typical abusive pattern in one's own life. Even though the end of the series is total insanity, the image projected upon this is the fantasy of the transformative power of love.
But like real life, we're still stuck in the rut, with only the imaginative fantasy to guide us forward. I think it's a positive step forward, even though the story itself is disturbing. It speaks for a lot of women (and men) who are wanting to engage what's going on, given the odds against them.
Lord, I am so glad I live in Japan! I don't get Twilight at all. Don't have a clue. I just think the photos make that one vampire guy look deformed. His forehead is HUGE and they emphasize it by really piling on the hair. He's like a bad carnival caricature of Luke Perry.ReplyDelete
But then I've never understood the appeal of Harry Potter, either, and most of the people I hang out with her LOVE that little rascally fella.
Oh, I do know the female lead (Bella?) is playing Joan Jett in the Runaways movie and she looks smashing with a shag mullett and rocker clothes. Still doesn't make me wanna endure Twilight.ReplyDelete
And "Twilight" plays perfectly to the zeitgeist of Middle America, in ways that I'm not even going to *start* going into in this forum.ReplyDelete
Just to make sure I'm barking up the right tree here:
Would that be along the lines of the accusation Bill Maher levied at Joe the Plumber, of vicariously imagining himself to be a wealthy American entrepreneur and thus voting with their interests? I may be superimposing my own suspicions on yours, but from your description, it sounds like a big part of Twilight's appeal lies with vicarious wish fulfillment on the part of people empathizing with those who are using them for their own gain. (Which would fit perfectly well in the way media relates to teen-agers.)
The "Twilight" fantasy is to be paired with someone cool.ReplyDelete
Wow, that's it. Thats actually it. I couldn't really get my head around what it was about Twighlight that bothered me, but I think Chris actually just nailed it for me.
It's not about realising hidden potential and there's no 'With great power comes great responsibility' philosophy. Rather, the central premise appears to be 'Someday my Prince will come.'
That isn't horror and it sure as hell 'aint Superhero mythology. That folks, is a fairytale. One seemingly telling tween girls that all they have to do is wait and eventually a Prince Charming will come along to fix everything.
I can see how that's an appealing message, but I dont like it, no sir, not one little bit.
I'm with steveapalooza. Please, tell me more...ReplyDelete
I haven't read or seen the movie, either. But after reading your descriptions or Bella and her nerdy friends, I thought of another metaphor.ReplyDelete
Nerdy friends ----> comics community
what do you think?
I'm going to send this to all of my, god, ADULT women friends who constantly badger me to get into this obviously Harlequin-for-teens treacle.ReplyDelete
Thank you for taking one for the team, or, at this point, 1/2 for the team ;)
Let me just say, you deserve a lot of praise for bringing up all of these things about Twilight. My girlfriend and I have spent hours critiquing everything about this franchise (although I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because I haven't sat through all of it yet either), and their are things that seriously offend me about it. All of the points you made about Bella, and her friends, and Edward are right on the dot. Most people complain about Twilight and say things like "I don't like gay vampires that sparkle." Which I don't entirely disagree with, but that's at the bottom of the list of problems. This movie has caused so many guys and girls to go along with stupid gender stereotypes that are just laughable. One thing I have noticed is that most people who tend to like Twilight have relationship problems. It makes one come to the conclusion that this franchise is feeding off the misery of women of all ages (and men) that aren't happy with their lover. So tragic and upsetting.ReplyDelete
I never hear anyone else talk about what bugged me the most about Twilight and that's the fact that Edward is 100+ years old. well, that's fine on it's own but why is he in such a state of arrested development that he's more than happy to still act like a teenager and live at home. Not to mention it's a love stpry between a teen girl and an old man.ReplyDelete
Boutade - jeez, did you HAVE to make pretty much the same point as me, get it in earlier than mine AND make it THAT MUCH better than I did (or ever could)?!ReplyDelete
Yeah - what Boutade said, which was considerably better and more informed than what I said.
I tip my hat in your direction.
There have been several online commentators who have argued that the books are basically repackaged Mormon philosophy.ReplyDelete
Thanks for the compliment. One thing I was thinking of, though. While "Someday my prince will come" is the big theme, I think a slightly more accurate assessment is, "Someday my cool prince will come."
It's weird, because I was looking at some of the teen movies where the boy gets the girl, and in most of them she's shown as being popular, but being human too, not some unreachable goddess. Actually, with a lot of teen movies it's that way. Protagonist gets elevated a bit, unattainable love interest is shown to have a human side and human flaws, and both of them meet in the middle.
Twilight, though...Edward's a vampire. Pretty much perfect, and he takes Bella to be his beloved forever and ever. I think that may be less a story and more wish fulfillment. I'm trying to imagine something similar. Maybe a story in which a boy goes to high school and a smoking hot bikini model/porn star decides that he'll be her boyfriend...
I found that a bottle of wine and the Rifftrax really helped when I finally watched the movie. Sort of like biting down on a stick when they have to cut off your leg, but it helped.ReplyDelete
I am completely at a loss why Val and most posters consider the Twilight vampires "cool jocks". They're emo fantasy as rock stars. Emo kids go through hell in real high schools. They may dream of living la vida David Bowie or Marilyn Manson, but they get mocked the way gay kids did when I was in high school. But in Twilight, the kids lurking at the emo table dressed in black and missing half the school year are secretly worshiped by everyone else in the school.ReplyDelete
Does anyone seriously think there are a lot of h.s. football players eating this stuff up? Cheerleaders who feel secretly misunderstood might read it, but only to the extent they feel like nerds inside.
And the rest of young nerdom at the SD Comic-Con long ago gave up the "nerd by day" fantasy. Modern superheroes are military special ops and superspies with Donald Trump pay. Hal Jordan brags about bagging the hot superheroines. Clark Kent is a top reporter and got to marry Lois. Peter Parker married Mary Jane. The X-Men continue to live in a mansion and have private jets. Wolverine was never a nerd. There is no room for Walter Mitty at Marvel and DC today.
I'm sorry you sat through 1/2 of this. My oldest daughter has read the books, seen the movie a dozen times, and was one of the Twilight masses at SDCC. Also she met Robert Pattinson (whom she adores)...
My middle daughter saw the movie... and could care less.
My wife, who works as a counselor with mostly teenage girls, saw it and thought it terrible, and that it portrayed a very dangerous co-dependant relationship.
I have no desire to see it, so I will "enjoy" it through your blog. :)
(My middle daughter and I saw Harry Potter the other night -which we enjoyed - and saw the preview for New Moon... we both looked at each other and she says, "That looks worse than the first." I love that kid.)
Okay, will everyone stop saying "Twilight is not a vampire novel"?ReplyDelete
It's worse than people saying "30 Days of Night" was not a vampire movie on the IMDB boards.
Wow! Gene Ha just voiced something that's been bugging me about comic book superpeople for a long time but I had no idea why or what it was.ReplyDelete
Perpetual "loser" Spider-Man was married to the hottest girl in town. The Transformers movies are all about landing Megan Fox and having the baddest car ever... it turns into a crazy robot, for cryin' out loud. Wizard magazine positions itself as a stunted adolescent version of Maxim, having abandoned most of its wonky price guide/comics fan nerdiness.
It's no longer about being an outsider, it's about being the ultimate insider. Adopting the trappings of those who rejected you to show them that, "Hey man, I'm cool too! I use Axe body spray just like you do!"
What any of that has to do with Twilight, I dunno. Still haven't watched it or read it.
Thanks for the shout-out David. Think of all the text I saved you from having to write!ReplyDelete
Anonymous: The subject of the age difference does come up in Twilight discussions, and yes it is disturbing. Taken as a literal truth, it's also absurd. A 104 year old and an 18 year old? The two of them are on opposite ends of the life experience timeline, what could they possibly have in common?
The author never goes into the psychology of her undead, even though she plays with some interesting ideas. I think what she's created are immortals along the lines of Tuck Everlasting, where you are frozen in the psychological state of development you were in when you changed. That would make Edward's age just awkward, because he's always been a teenager and will always be one.
But whether you see him as a long-lived mind heading into afflotoxis or a Peter Pan I think the result is the same--an encounter with an unhealthy personality. One with a strong temptation drawing victims in: Never having to face the real world.
Bella is all too happy to drown herself.
Very well-written and insightful. I haven't seen the movie but I've read the books. Something puzzled me from the very first book onwards, and it's something you hit on here. *How* are we supposed to like Bella? She's a total bitch. For all her supposed maturity and intelligence, she acts like a six-year old (there are numerous occasions in the books when she literally throws tantrums, like a young child), her infatuation with Edward is creepy and she obviously has major self-esteem issues. We are repeatedly told that Bella is "selfless", etc., but she treats her human friends like dirt, even describing one boy who tries to befriend her on her first day of school as "the overly-helpful, chess-club type", having just met him! And then she wonders why no one understands her, wah wah wah. She is really quite detestable and if Edward had been able to read her mind, he probably would have realised what a narcissistic fool she is and saved himself the trouble of stalking her.ReplyDelete
A little late here, but:ReplyDelete
Twilight is like Mean Girls, but with vampires and an overcast sky. Also, without the smarts of Tina Fey.
I hasten to add, I recently read that the author of the books doesn't even like your average vampire movie/book/tv show etc. etc. They're too scary and creepy, apparently. Listening to her speak or reading her in an interview, she sounds exactly like the type of teenager you describe. It's nauseating.