tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post7274441142657704044..comments2024-01-14T11:45:23.991-05:00Comments on Occasional Superheroine: Man Creates Protocol For Groping Women At ConventionsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-54383850271230150902008-10-03T03:22:00.000-04:002008-10-03T03:22:00.000-04:00At WonderCon 2008, I was at the New Frontier After...At WonderCon 2008, I was at the New Frontier After Party with Nick Doan of Pray for Death eFame and his wife, Gwen. <BR/><BR/>My shoulder was giving me crap due to a work-related injury that tendered the tendons of said shoulder. It had to be my writing arm, too.<BR/><BR/>So I sit down next to my friend and filming partner, Kroze (no, that's not his real name; it freaked Bob Wayne out or he was just facepalming, who knows).<BR/><BR/>I hear Gwen talking to this complete loser about why she reads comics. He is going on and on about how she feels she needs to read about stuff that women cannot do. Like men can do it too, but whatever. It got to a point where I wanted to get up and crack the guy over the head. <BR/><BR/>Nick came over, even though Gwen was obviously giving this shell of a human a verbal beating. The guy then asks Nick if he would fight someone trying to rape him, or run. Nick said he would run, especially if the rapist had a gun. Our fellow chauvinist didn't agree. <BR/><BR/>Long story short, he slinked away into the night as Gwen systematically blocked his cock (but not cockblocked, that would imply somethin' else). <BR/><BR/>The world is crazy.<BR/><BR/>I'm probably going to read this and be all: shit, I name-dropped the f*** out of the reply.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-8088114856981316842008-04-30T12:34:00.000-04:002008-04-30T12:34:00.000-04:00“If he kept the OSBP to himself or his circle of f...“If he kept the OSBP to himself or his circle of friends, this conversation would not be happening. But theferrett put a glowing ode to the OSBP on a public message board, encouraging women to allow strangers and casual acquaintences to touch their breasts.”<BR/><BR/>It has much less to do with the fact that he posted on a public board, and much more to do with the fact that this activity took place at a convention that (correct me if I’m wrong) did not grant permission, and where other con-goers were not told that such a thing would be taking place.<BR/><BR/>~chrisnotalabelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04441833484254401589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-54118233850137261932008-04-30T10:14:00.000-04:002008-04-30T10:14:00.000-04:00Alright then. I'll talk about it.It's obvious the...Alright then. I'll talk about it.<BR/><BR/>It's obvious theferret thought about this with his small, sheltered, little group, and it was probably insticated from a simple suggestion and excelled from there.<BR/><BR/>In that sense, it's perfectly understandable and pitiable, really, that someone would come up with this "great idea" and wish to share it with the world.<BR/><BR/>Men and boys think like this. Not everyone, but a lot do, in all honesty.<BR/><BR/>I found myself annoyed with the little sci-fi group at my college, mainly because of their socially awkward behavior (and here I'm pretending I had none), largely when they dealt with "how to act sexually appropriate." <BR/><BR/>It was a sci-fi fan club. Male dominated, and full of women who love storytelling and some such, but also flirted promiscuously - some in order to get accepted by the group, and some because it was the norm. <BR/><BR/>There were times where this naivite got everyone (the men and the women) in trouble. Times where they offended the wrong person, gave the wrong impression to the Christian group across the hall, done stupid things for male competition (fight club).<BR/><BR/>These were all men and women who'd lived sheltered most of their lives, and were adjusting to the "societal norm". <BR/><BR/>Some never got there.<BR/><BR/>That's who theferret reminds me of. It makes it very difficult for me to criticize him, really, in any real way.<BR/><BR/>I just hope he grows up from the experience.<BR/><BR/>And it appears that he did exactly that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09714266421105137865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-25065600596156869512008-04-30T06:54:00.000-04:002008-04-30T06:54:00.000-04:00Hi Ami,feel free to do what you like :-)Hi Ami,<BR/><BR/>feel free to do what you like :-)Vergehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10083468076834391732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-72565955090588598162008-04-29T22:25:00.000-04:002008-04-29T22:25:00.000-04:00That whole thing is SO UGH and filled with teh ske...That whole thing is SO UGH and filled with teh sketchy D: On the bright side it's spawned a lot of hilarious satires and responses! xD<BR/><BR/>At least the original guy's since gone back on it and advocates against it now :)<BR/><BR/>Still... ugh D: And all the attempted justifications are just so.. >.>;;Ami Angelwingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07263018434610100226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-47758581625220470332008-04-29T22:18:00.000-04:002008-04-29T22:18:00.000-04:00Dear Red Stapler,I am serious when I say this, but...Dear Red Stapler,<BR/>I am serious when I say this, but I admire you sticking up for theferrett. Correct me if I am wrong, and I'm sure you will, but I get the impression from here and your blog that you know theferrett and are friends with him. I would hope that my friends are as vigorous in my defense. <BR/><BR/>That being said,I think you should continue to be frustrated about the way this conversation is going. Because there is more cause to discuss theferret's live journal post than everyone's reaction to it here. <BR/><BR/>He wrote a post smarmily promoting (<I>Touch the magic, my friends. Touch the magic</I>)a project he and his friends thought up which entails touching women's breasts. He admits that there is a sexual aspect in it for him (<I>it's strangely wholesome and sexual at the same time</I>).<BR/><BR/>Women are uncomfortable with this be advocated in a public forum in glowing terms as to entice more members of the Open Source Boob Project. <BR/><BR/>This is not an ad hominem attack. This is a reasoned, tempered attack. <BR/><BR/>And there is a nasty undercurrent that can possibly be percieved in all of this that the women who participated in and/or came up with the OSBP are cool, with it, together, centered and in touch with their bodies and any woman who objects to this post is stuck up, has issues, or is too uptight. This is very, very dangerous. And not necessarily true.<BR/><BR/>Believe it or not, what the men and women of the OSBP are doing is outside the societal norm. If in that circle, all parties involved are okay with it, then more power to them. But that attitude does not reflect the rest of the world. So they should have understood the way this idea would be taken and understand the reasons behind the reaction to it. <BR/><BR/>Like I said in my last post. If he kept the OSBP to himself or his circle of friends, this conversation would not be happening. But theferrett put a glowing ode to the OSBP on a public message board, encouraging women to allow strangers and casual acquaintences to touch their breasts. Once that hit the internet, the way it hit the internet, it's a little hard to say "No, it's not the way theferret described it. It's not smarmy at all. Stop picking on him". Smarmy is in the eye of the beholder. And in my eye, what theferrett did was smarmy. <BR/><BR/>And I'm sorry, Val, for clogging up your blog with my diatribes.William Gatevackeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06448031585797310734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-12098254082180464742008-04-29T20:34:00.000-04:002008-04-29T20:34:00.000-04:00Hi Val :) Is it ok if I delete my comment and mak...Hi Val :) Is it ok if I delete my comment and make a new one or something? :\ I wrote it late at night before I went to bed and realized when I woke up that I implied some things about the guy that were prolly unfair that I didn't mean to :( I hope it's ok :\Ami Angelwingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07263018434610100226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-58987876989395518922008-04-29T16:13:00.000-04:002008-04-29T16:13:00.000-04:00Juan: Somewhere there's an anti-smut film from the...Juan: Somewhere there's an anti-smut film from the 50s narrated by some famous actor person. You can probably find it somewhere on the internet. <BR/><BR/>What was interesting to me was one of the reasons he said porn was bad was that it embraced a "fetishist" view of sex. Including a "breast fetish".<BR/><BR/>Somehow I don't think many people think a breast fetish exists, because its widespread and common.pdughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09832284495239324375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-53743079681625763652008-04-29T12:52:00.000-04:002008-04-29T12:52:00.000-04:00I'm genuinely surprised that nobody has mentioned ...I'm genuinely surprised that nobody has mentioned how the press would handle this story (and they would find out. This is GOLD to a news producer.). <BR/><BR/>How long would it really be before the popular conception of comic readers shifts from Simpsons' Comic Book Guy to sketchy guy in a raincoat? <BR/><BR/>This isn't a lynch-mob. This is common sense. As much as comic fans want to believe otherwise, the perception of comics being for kids is still very much intact. Ask the CBLDF. <BR/><BR/>And, really, its a medium, not an age or maturity specific genre. What does anyone but the sad-sacks who support this idea have to gain by having these losers at the conventions at the cost of alienating families, women, and men like myself who find the whole idea pathetic.The Leaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04836241071795980225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-31965936588764940722008-04-29T12:15:00.000-04:002008-04-29T12:15:00.000-04:00What's the big deal with boobs anyway? They're jus...What's the big deal with boobs anyway? They're just mounds of fat. Sure, during intercourse it's a different thing entirely to caress a woman's breast. <BR/><BR/>But is there really a need to grope a boob while waiting in line for a sketch or whatever? <BR/><BR/>Is the unspoken hope that boob groping will somehow lead to sex on the con floor? I don't understand. <BR/><BR/>What a fucking stupid idea.Juanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17901870362434819225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-983654033819442032008-04-29T12:08:00.000-04:002008-04-29T12:08:00.000-04:00"And this sort of Stalinist style groupthink is wh..."And this sort of Stalinist style groupthink is why fandom is, and always will be, seen as a group of pathetic human beings by the mundane world."<BR/><BR/>I find this comment to be quite hilarious, given that Valerie's solution is actually quite libertarian:<BR/><BR/>"I think if people want to have adult-themed comic book or sci-fi conventions where this sort of behavior is agreed-to upon before people even buy the ticket, that's fine."<BR/><BR/>~chrisnotalabelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04441833484254401589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-86387425514502817302008-04-29T10:39:00.001-04:002008-04-29T10:39:00.001-04:00"And even at fifteen I remember thinking to myself..."And even at fifteen I remember thinking to myself "Why are these here?" And I still don't know the answer. When did porn at at a COMICS convention become a "normal" and accepted thing? Why have these two incongruous things been saddled together?"<BR/><BR/>There's cartoons and comics in Playboy?pdughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09832284495239324375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-81262781390532345002008-04-29T10:39:00.000-04:002008-04-29T10:39:00.000-04:00I'm actually really frustrated that the discussion...I'm actually really frustrated that the discussion is intent on focusing on the situation as it happened, rather than the dialog that has opened up because of it.<BR/><BR/>There have been a lot of ad hominem attacks thrown at The Ferrett and his wife and their friends, and that's not okay.<BR/><BR/>I love that we're calling creeps out on their behavior, <I>but that's not what happened here.</I><BR/><BR/>Can we please get past "This sweaty nerd who wrote that awful post wants to touch me"? Because that's not what it was at all, and it's muddling the discourse.Red Staplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12874945256617536899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-18076806829636025392008-04-29T10:34:00.000-04:002008-04-29T10:34:00.000-04:00This goes on the long list of things that will be ...This goes on the long list of things that will be itemized in my suicide note someday.Alex!https://www.blogger.com/profile/09354117676437696121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-35382847640679248912008-04-29T07:21:00.000-04:002008-04-29T07:21:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ami Angelwingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07263018434610100226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-65195311707403431382008-04-29T06:47:00.000-04:002008-04-29T06:47:00.000-04:00"And this sort of Stalinist style groupthink is wh..."And this sort of Stalinist style groupthink is why fandom is, and always will be, seen as a group of pathetic human beings by the mundane world."<BR/><BR/>I thought fandom was seen by the mundane world as a group of pathetic human beings because of things like the advocacy of a color-coded system of grabbing boobs at conventions.<BR/><BR/>Oh, but it was really our "Stalinist groupthink" that did it. Thanks for clearing that up.Vergehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10083468076834391732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-38881614823016575062008-04-29T03:53:00.000-04:002008-04-29T03:53:00.000-04:00I have some friends and acquaintances in fandom th...I have some friends and acquaintances in fandom that I think of as 'idea men'.<BR/>People who are constantly coming up with ideas, but apparently are unable to determine when an idea is unfeasible or just plain silly.<BR/><BR/>I have come to the conclusion that these guys need someone standing behind them to tell them which ideas shuld be immediately discarded.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes the person in the back should be carrying a huge mallet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-37198736052216930192008-04-29T00:39:00.000-04:002008-04-29T00:39:00.000-04:00The best response by the oft-hilarious ed champion...The <A HREF="http://www.edrants.com/open-source-sodomy/" REL="nofollow">best response</A> by the oft-hilarious ed champion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09714266421105137865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-26615305368762005182008-04-28T23:30:00.000-04:002008-04-28T23:30:00.000-04:00This asshole just set geekdom back about 20 years....This asshole just set geekdom back about 20 years. If this guy would ever ask any of my female friends that, he'd not only hafta worry about what THEY'D do to him, but what I would do to what's left over.WOLVERINEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11330916393850341529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-33814062813277420932008-04-28T23:04:00.000-04:002008-04-28T23:04:00.000-04:00After reading you blog for a while, I'd have thoug...After reading you blog for a while, I'd have thought you'd be above perpetuating this sort of lynch-mob mentality, Valerie.<BR/><BR/>First of all, the guy was quite clear that this thing would be between consensual adults. And secondly, he recanted the idea and apologized for it once how bad of an idea it was became obvious to him. <BR/><BR/>Yes, it was a pathetic idea, but not nearly as pathetic as the continued crucification of the guy for making a stupid suggestion.<BR/><BR/>What I'm saying is that you and your readers have found a justification to be little better than Mao's Red Guards and have leapt at it with abandon. <BR/><BR/>And this sort of Stalinist style groupthink is why fandom is, and always will be, seen as a group of pathetic human beings by the mundane world. <BR/><BR/>You all disgust me. This blog is off my reading listAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-79428169691132380192008-04-28T22:43:00.000-04:002008-04-28T22:43:00.000-04:00I don't understand. I think life creates many acc...I don't understand. I think life creates many acceptable venues for consensual boob groping so I don't see the need for this rather pathetic version with buttons and frippery and whatnot.<BR/><BR/>Maybe it's fun for a certain group of... shall we say... romantically undernourished and/or childish people to attempt to create one at their little comic book parties. I don't know.<BR/><BR/>I don't WANT to know.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17723952510039418615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-78386382977550873102008-04-28T22:02:00.000-04:002008-04-28T22:02:00.000-04:00William Gatevackes: Ferrett is married.Oh, sorry. ...<I>William Gatevackes: Ferrett is married.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, sorry. I take back everything I said! OSBP is A ok!. <BR/><BR/>Um, on second thought, no it's not. <BR/><BR/>Yeah, I found out that theferret married in further perusal of his livejournal. I posted a correction that blogger ate. <BR/><BR/>That doesn't change the fact that his post and idea he promotes still seems smarmy. If anything, it makes it seem more smarmy by uping the kink level.<BR/><BR/>Hey, it's great that he has a group of female friends that will let him, if not encourage him, to touch their breasts. It's great his wife is okay with that. And it's okay if you think that it is a "wonderful thing". But the thing is, not every woman feels the same way. <BR/><BR/>If theferrett kept this little game to himself and his circle of friends, there would be no problem. But women feel legitimately threatened. And the fact that a woman came up with the OSBP does nothing to change this. And it shouldn't. <BR/><BR/>For more of my take on this, if the link works, click <A HREF="http://billgatevackes.vox.com/library/post/i-rant-about-the-opensource-boob-project.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>William Gatevackeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06448031585797310734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-72679470186464462872008-04-28T21:28:00.000-04:002008-04-28T21:28:00.000-04:00Sooooo . . . that's a "no," then?Sooooo . . . that's a "no," then?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-13311657854189361842008-04-28T19:53:00.000-04:002008-04-28T19:53:00.000-04:00Oh dear Lord. When I'd first heard about this I w...Oh dear Lord. <BR/><BR/> When I'd first heard about this I was convinced it was a joke. No way would anyone actually be serious about this sort of thing in any reality I choose to consent to. But now hearing all this, while it disgusts me, it doesn't really surprise me that such assinine antics would crop up in the fan community. <BR/><BR/> Speaking as a male (the name was a nod to actor Stacy Keach), I have nothing but deepest respect and fond feeling for the women in the fan community. It's got to be hard for anyone to be the minority amidst the minority and to be amongst people whose social skills. . .well, to say they can vary would be generous.<BR/><BR/> I've been to Dragon*Con a couple of times, and with some friends of the feminine persuasion who chose to attend in costume. Like everyone there, I was having a good time and enjoying the Multiversal coolness that is Dragon*Con, when my friends clued me in to something. Something that couldn't be unseen once I had seen it.<BR/> <BR/>My friends related how they'd been followed up the stairs by an individual with a camera who had been attempting to get a shot up their skirts. Heavyset, definitely an asperger syndrome case, and most definitely a skeezy individual.<BR/><BR/> It was a pattern I noticed with the female cosplayers; there'd always be a couple guys snapping pics from--shall we say--<I>creative</I> angles. And that's not cool in the least.<BR/><BR/> I can appreciate a gal who chooses to dress as Dawn or Power Girl as much as the next red-blooded fanboy, but apply common sense whenever possible. Just because someone is dressed a certain way does not imply you treat them a certain way. I remember back in the day when the very <I>notion</I> of girls actually liking things like comics or Star Wars was inconcievable. Since joining the Star Wars FanForce I have met women who not only like this stuff, but love it, and are proud in declaring their alleigance. We should be encouraging as many women as possible to come on into the community and share the fun, not creep them out to the extent they flee never to return. <BR/><BR/> This whole thing has 'CREEPY' written all over it in 2 foot letters of flame.<BR/><BR/> It makes women uncomfortable and less likely to come out and socialize with male fans, it makes men at large look bad and tarred with a creepy stalker brush, and it makes an environment which should be about enjoyment of our own particular piece of pop culture into one of discomfort. And if you're not having fun, what's the point?<BR/><BR/> StacyStacyHDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03182215174658982848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-57335068434318179002008-04-28T19:15:00.000-04:002008-04-28T19:15:00.000-04:00William Gatevackes: Ferrett is married.As I said a...William Gatevackes: Ferrett is married.<BR/><BR/>As I said at The Beat...<BR/><BR/>You can find my take on this phenomenon <A HREF="http://meandmyredstapler.blogspot.com/2008/04/open-source-understanding-project.html" REL="nofollow">here.</A><BR/><BR/>I actually know one of the women who participated. She wore a red button.<BR/><BR/>I have a sneaking suspicion that had she, or Ferrett’s wife, been the person to post about it, we’d be having an entirely different discussion. Or none at all.Red Staplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12874945256617536899noreply@blogger.com