tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post2120349228598320540..comments2024-01-14T11:45:23.991-05:00Comments on Occasional Superheroine: Should Superheroine Comics Have Sexy Covers?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-49014722297987823152007-10-04T19:44:00.000-04:002007-10-04T19:44:00.000-04:00I think the sexy covers can be fine, emphasis on c...I think the sexy covers can be fine, emphasis on can. But the sexiness/cheesecake factor should be predicated on the artist's understanding of the characters. For example, with most Adam Hughes cheesecake covers, he shows a great understanding of the character. His Wonder Woman doesn't just pose or preen- she exhibits strength. His Catwoman is more sultry... it's a different kind of sexiness that's instantly apparent.<BR/><BR/>In those cases, a certain "in character" sexiness adds to the appeal. But this is why Hughes is not only a master of cheesecake, but also a great comics artist. Along with his anatomical rendering, he brings all the other elements that should be in there. It's seamless.<BR/><BR/>So while I'm not more likely to buy a comic with a cheesecake cover (actually it's the opposite), if Adam Hughes is drawing it, I'm tempted.<BR/><BR/>Whereas if it's Greg Horn... not so much. It's not that he isn't a great renderer. It's that as another commenter pointed out, his imagery is lifeless. The "Hulk" cover aside, the White Queen cover at the top of this post is hurt by her dead, dead eyes. It's static, a lot of gorgeously painted zombiefication. The "American Gothic" cover suffers from being the laziest visual cliche on the planet other than another Mona Lisa cop. It's like a band doing yet another cover of "I Want Candy" or "Mickey;" do we really need another lazy "American Gothic" parody?<BR/><BR/>That's the biggest problem with Greg Horn- his failure of imagination. He has these skills at photo realism and piddles them away with micronized ideas... that barely qualify as ideas.<BR/><BR/>Michael Turner is another artist with a rep for "sexy" ladies, and people have talked about idealization in relation to his work and I don't see it. I just see someone who absolutely cannot draw, letting his colorist bail him out with a lot of computerized effects.<BR/><BR/>Idealization? Anatomic disaster is more like it. There's absolutely no underlying structure to his figure work. And did you see the variant cover he did for the new "Battlestar Galactica" series with Number 6? That was supposed to be cheesecake but all it really is is an embarrassingly lazy and slapdash drawing. It looks like he churned it out at the sketch table at a convention in 15 minutes... and yet there it is, a "sexy" Turner cover.<BR/><BR/>And it's not the only one.<BR/><BR/>I know he's a nice guy and I don't begrudge him the work (there are actually worse artists out there) but I will never understand his appeal or why people attempt to defend his artwork. To me, his covers say, "Stay the hell away from this... the inside might be as crap as the outside."<BR/><BR/>So yeah, I'm all in favor of sexy covers... but only if they're done with craft and verve. Out of all these guys, only Adam Hughes manages both. Failing that, I'd rather see something action-packed and dynamic!<BR/><BR/>Actually, action-packed and dynamic equals sexy in my book. Not some model posed and Photoshopped.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17723952510039418615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-30347808620262593152007-10-03T16:35:00.000-04:002007-10-03T16:35:00.000-04:00Actually the bodice ripper covers are starting to ...Actually the bodice ripper covers are starting to be a thing of the past on romance novels. Most romance novels just picture the guy or if they do picture a female/male pair they tend to be in a more "lets kick butt" pose. Really the comic book industry would do themselves a favor to look at the romance industry. They have really changed with the times, and now are attracting more people all the time (men included).Vailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09670902515361325767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-8580255426305082952007-10-03T13:26:00.000-04:002007-10-03T13:26:00.000-04:00I agree with kalinara here. Cheesecake covers are ...I agree with kalinara here. Cheesecake covers are great for cheesecake books, but some of these books aren't cheesecake books. I don't buy those T&A books. I have no interest in them, but they might be good. I've never read Fathom, Lady Death, Vampirella, etc. because I assume from the covers that the book is going to be some straight guy sex fantasy. While I have nothing against straight guys having sex fantasy books, I'm not interested in them. When books like She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel have similar covers, I'm discouraged from reading them because I think they too are going to be straight guys sex fantasy books. I missed a lot of She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel because of the covers. It took seeing Modok on the cover of Ms. Marvel to get me to buy it. And Modok ain't sexy.Scott (The Mad Thinker) Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10782962281214635210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-39457034269002721472007-10-03T12:14:00.000-04:002007-10-03T12:14:00.000-04:00y'know, the amount of "flesh" on, say,a spider-man...y'know, the amount of "flesh" on, say,<BR/>a spider-man or superman comic doesn't bother me, nor does the amount on a powergirl or spidergirl cover.<BR/><BR/>i think the "problem" [if thats what we call this] is the intent, superman is flexing and stuff but he isn't winking or smiling at the reader [thank goodness!]<BR/><BR/>sure it makes me ashamed of my gender sometimes, but then so do covers with shambling zombies on them.<BR/><BR/>anyhoo, till WonderWoman wears pants, or batman has bare legs,<BR/>i make mine, literally.EDChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06084227684735239356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-40328285150838683452007-10-02T11:25:00.000-04:002007-10-02T11:25:00.000-04:00P.P.S. I sold a lot of comics on the cheesecake co...P.P.S. I sold a lot of comics on the cheesecake covers. It wasn't a case of misrepresentation, because the consumer was buying the cover art, with no regard for the interiors. Most books that use this tactic couldn't survive without it, so "scaring the girlbase" wasn't a sales issue. If you lose 1,000 good girl art fans to gain 10 actual girls, it might be commendable, but in a similar fashion as hari kari.<BR/><BR/>Say, anyone remember Hari Kari? The Shi knock-off?Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-20135494761995104332007-10-02T06:01:00.000-04:002007-10-02T06:01:00.000-04:00Dont forget that Greg Horn used a gay porn star as...Dont forget that Greg Horn used a gay porn star as a model on the She Hulk cover with that cowboy guy.sammy.the.khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244600298489890263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-58183152080942438622007-10-02T05:22:00.000-04:002007-10-02T05:22:00.000-04:00I think you may be misreading Lisa's argument a li...I think you may be misreading Lisa's argument a little here.<BR/><BR/>Lisa's not arguing against cheesecake covers in and of themselves. I don't think she's even necessarily even arguing against Horn's work in particular.<BR/><BR/>Her argument is that in the case of comics like She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel, the cheesecake covers don't actually reflect the content within. And in fact, they scare away a lot of fans who would otherwise enjoy the interior content.<BR/><BR/>Neither Ms. Marvel nor She-Hulk are the cheesecake titles that Horn's cover art implies, but the customer has no way of knowing that without opening the book. Since a cover is supposed to be incentive TO open the book, this becomes problematic. People who buy the book looking for cheesecake would be disappointed, while people who might otherwise enjoy the book take one look at the cover and say "No thanks."<BR/><BR/>I don't think Lisa would have as much of a problem if Horn's covers were on books that are supposed to be cheesecake-fests inside and out. Then at least it's an accurate advertisement/warning of the content.kalinarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01417686761943716312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-32441646147609154372007-10-02T00:29:00.000-04:002007-10-02T00:29:00.000-04:00P.S. Michael Turner is also a shitty artist. Have ...P.S. Michael Turner is also a shitty artist. Have we never seen Witchblade's "costume," in which her armor conveniently fails to cover most of her chest, all of her internal organs, plus her biceps, thighs and ass? On the other hand, women loved his hideous, exploitative work on that book more than the actual character...Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-66816408373436747022007-10-02T00:22:00.000-04:002007-10-02T00:22:00.000-04:001) No really, Greg Horn is a shitty artist. He bas...1) No really, Greg Horn is a shitty artist. He basically just let Photoshop do all the work for him, so that everything looks (literally) plastic and lifeless.<BR/><BR/>2) I can remember selling Wonder Woman comics regularly to exactly one female customer in my eight years as a retailer. This includes when guys like Brian Bolland, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, and John Byrne were doing perfectly respectful covers.<BR/><BR/>3) I don't remember how many woman bought Jim Balent's Catwoman, Tarot, and Chaos! Comics work, but there were a lot of xx readers of Lady Death and her fellow bad girls. Admittedly, more often than not these women were proportionately unattractive, and likely felt empowered vicariously through these characters' sexuality and strength, but that's comics fandom in a nutshell, isn't it?<BR/><BR/>4) Say what you will about Bad Girls, but there was no Lord Death, Vamperfella, or PurgaTony that they were meerly derived from.<BR/><BR/>5) The biggest selling comics with women in my years? X-Men, of course. Plenty respectful of their heroines, but hardly averse to showing them in a sensualized light.Diabolu Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685199809207954223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-53493777596438573872007-10-01T22:05:00.000-04:002007-10-01T22:05:00.000-04:00Greg, I was just reading your comment thinking, "H...Greg, I was just reading your comment thinking, "How could anyone think Michael Turner draws over-sexualized figures?" I can see why your litter sister likes Turner, his characters have that eyeball appeal and look sleek, elegant, and refined. And I applaud your sister for buying stuff she likes rather than buying stuff she's just going to complain about.kennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06649763676628428647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-63126209765447782842007-10-01T16:07:00.000-04:002007-10-01T16:07:00.000-04:00>I think the more important question is: What do f...>I think the more important question is: What do female comic readers want to buy? Female comic fans will often complain about what they're offended by, but it seems rare that they ever say, "Here's an example of something I like. I want more of this."<<BR/><BR/>I offer the case of my sister above. Michael Turner is the only artist she really loves. ;)<BR/><BR/>(Joe Mad and George Perez have also earned a lot of positive comments from her.)Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12193664129478636929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-64216623268862620762007-10-01T16:05:00.000-04:002007-10-01T16:05:00.000-04:00>On the other hand, I've seen very little work by ...>On the other hand, I've seen very little work by Mike Deodato or Michael Turner that I like. Deodato is a lumpy stylist that can't draw covers or interiors, as far as I'm concerned. And I'll never understand the appeal of Turner's work.<<BR/><BR/>I've never understood why Turner's work is considered sexualized (let alone oversexualized). His female and male figures are roughly equally 'idealized', and their idealization doesn't usually appear to be in an intentionally sexual direction.<BR/><BR/>If you don't assume sexual intent, his (female) art can very easily be interpreted as how a female reader might see herself 'idealized'. He's my little sister's favorite artist, both for females and for males.<BR/><BR/>When reading Superman/Batman's <I>Supergirl</I> story, she kept running down the hall to tell me how someone had finally drawn Wonder Woman right, or that Superman and Batman looked great, that someone other than Jim Lee had finally understood the Man of Steel. A few weeks later, she insisted we go into a comic shop (she hates them) so that she could by a Turner's Sub-Mariner poster for the wall of her room.<BR/><BR/>Turner's art is cool, exaggerated, idealized, and trim. I don't think it belongs with the 'cheesecake' (what does that mean, anyway?) people usually deride.<BR/><BR/>Have you seen his Supergirl? I've never seen eyes so filled with hope.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12193664129478636929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-39837717960727826972007-10-01T16:01:00.000-04:002007-10-01T16:01:00.000-04:00I think the more important question is: What do fe...I think the more important question is: What do female comic readers want to buy? Female comic fans will often complain about what they're offended by, but it seems rare that they ever say, "Here's an example of something I like. I want more of this." I think the problem really hits home when well written books with realistic depictions of women, like Birds of Prey or Welcome to Tranquility, struggle to maintain sales while a book like, say, Ms. Marvel with its porno covers sells better.kennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06649763676628428647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-56991889716663221592007-10-01T15:51:00.000-04:002007-10-01T15:51:00.000-04:00I find that my opinion on this subject is mostly s...I find that my opinion on this subject is mostly shaped by my opinion of the artist. For example, I have no problem with Greg Horn putting a cover on a book I like; I find a lot of his cheesecake work witty and fun. Adam Hughes is a fantastic cover artist. Heck, Brian Bolland has done some fantastic cheesecake work- ever seen his Pope and Actress stuff?<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I've seen very little work by Mike Deodato or Michael Turner that I like. Deodato is a lumpy stylist that can't draw covers or interiors, as far as I'm concerned. And I'll never understand the appeal of Turner's work.Ray Cornwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05949935685030824321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-37729612731355905032007-10-01T15:37:00.000-04:002007-10-01T15:37:00.000-04:00I think you can't tar all covers that have sexual ...I think you can't tar all covers that have sexual content with the same brush. I look at those She-Hulk and Catwoman covers and I see art and design that is hip, playful and sexy. Whereas that Power Girl cover is just gross, adolescent and dumb.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05134855056681594546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-88027309867715979942007-10-01T12:57:00.000-04:002007-10-01T12:57:00.000-04:00I don't think that sex compromises competence, nor...I don't think that sex compromises competence, nor do I think cheesecake has to be derogatory. The Catwoman cover, for instance, is an easy juxtaposition of sex & danger- which is the mood often being evoked in covers of any kind.mordicaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05713766652793265867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-59133464666231696152007-10-01T11:32:00.000-04:002007-10-01T11:32:00.000-04:00I think that last cover is actually the Ed McGuinn...I think that last cover is actually the Ed McGuinness variant, rather than the regular Mike Deodato one.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I didn't mind Greg Horn when he was doing the goofy, quirky She-Hulk covers, but his generic cheesecake style bugs me. The women's skin looks like plastic most of the time, which is not very appealing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13867868039166531163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25566450.post-31593448641307455722007-10-01T11:29:00.000-04:002007-10-01T11:29:00.000-04:00I have to say in all honesty that I do like the ch...I have to say in all honesty that I do like the cheescake covers (like the power girl one). They don't factor in a whole lot in whether or not I buy something though.<BR/><BR/>From my experience as the one science major hanging out with all art majors in college, male illustrators draw a lot of sexy/naked women. I guess the comic artists that are well known for it are hired with the sexy covers in mind, but nearly every comic artist draws overly sexy women, in part probably because characters are designed that way and because they want to.<BR/><BR/>Thinking about it, are there any women superheroes that wear loose fitting clothing? Nobody really comes to mind?<BR/><BR/>Well, to summarize and conclude this scattered comment...<BR/><BR/>I'd like to see more superheroine comics in general, and with less T&A in the covers, especially if the inside art isn't like that. I also don't have a big problem with the sexy covers, but it seems like every female superhero having sexed up covers is pretty silly.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03785578592890453795noreply@blogger.com